snopes.com  

Go Back   snopes.com > SLC Central > Soapbox Derby

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01 December 2017, 02:41 PM
Darth Credence's Avatar
Darth Credence Darth Credence is offline
 
Join Date: 28 October 2005
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,339
Default Trump-Russia: Flynn charged with 'making false statement'

Story here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBC News
President Donald Trump's ex-national security adviser, Michael Flynn, has been charged with making a false statement to the FBI in January.
He's supposed to be pleading guilty shortly! Are there any bigger fish for him to flip on that aren't part of the Trump family?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01 December 2017, 05:38 PM
Darth Credence's Avatar
Darth Credence Darth Credence is offline
 
Join Date: 28 October 2005
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,339
Default

ABC is now reporting that Flynn has entered a guilty plea, and is prepared to testify that Trump ordered him to make contact with the Russians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABC News
Retired Lt. Gen Michael Flynn has promised “full cooperation” in the special counsel’s Russia investigation and, according to a confidant, is prepared to testify that Donald Trump directed him to make contact with the Russians, initially as a way to work together to fight ISIS in Syria.
It must be noted, of course, that contacting Russia is not illegal in and of itself. But Trump has directly denied knowledge of any contact, and Sessions has done so to the Senate.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01 December 2017, 05:53 PM
Lainie's Avatar
Lainie Lainie is offline
 
Join Date: 29 August 2005
Location: Suburban Columbus, OH
Posts: 73,961
Default

Whether contacting the Russians is legal depends on the nature of the contact, doesn't it?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01 December 2017, 06:08 PM
Darth Credence's Avatar
Darth Credence Darth Credence is offline
 
Join Date: 28 October 2005
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,339
Default

Sure, that's why I put in the caveat of it not being illegal by itself. I have little doubt that there is something illegal there - I doubt if Flynn would have accepted a plea deal that could still get him up to 5 years if they didn't have a whole lot more on him, and I doubt that they would have reduced it to that if they didn't know that his testimony was going to bring down a bigger fish.
I think the only bigger fish are part of the Trump family or Pence.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01 December 2017, 06:09 PM
ASL's Avatar
ASL ASL is offline
 
Join Date: 04 July 2003
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 5,283
Ponder

I think one of the issues is whether or not it was disclosed. If it is required to be disclosed and wasn't disclosed, it doesn't matter what the reason was.

...right?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01 December 2017, 06:13 PM
Errata's Avatar
Errata Errata is online now
 
Join Date: 02 August 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 13,021
Default

Without checking either outlet, I'm going to go ahead and speculate on right wing coverage:
"Flynn charges final step in pivot toward Clinton/Podesta indictments, say experts" - Breitbart (probably)
"Meghan Markle, Black Lives Matter Extremist?" - Fox News (probably)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01 December 2017, 06:22 PM
Lainie's Avatar
Lainie Lainie is offline
 
Join Date: 29 August 2005
Location: Suburban Columbus, OH
Posts: 73,961
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASL View Post
I think one of the issues is whether or not it was disclosed. If it is required to be disclosed and wasn't disclosed, it doesn't matter what the reason was.

...right?
Yes, that too. ETA: Did Flynn fail to disclose it, or outright lie about it? I think I'm getting the players confused.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01 December 2017, 09:35 PM
iskinner's Avatar
iskinner iskinner is offline
 
Join Date: 06 May 2011
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 320
Default Taxes before Treason

I wonder if at least some of the impetuous for the Republicans in Congress to get their tax bill done as fast as they are trying to get it done is to do so before the hammer from Mueller's investigation starts falling with all the political fallout there likely is to be from that.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01 December 2017, 10:14 PM
thorny locust's Avatar
thorny locust thorny locust is offline
 
Join Date: 27 April 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 8,358
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASL View Post
I think one of the issues is whether or not it was disclosed. If it is required to be disclosed and wasn't disclosed, it doesn't matter what the reason was.

...right?
I think it does still matter what the reason was. The USA is supposed to have one president at a time. Between the November election and the January inauguration, whether or not the presidency went to a different party at the election, we don't have two presidents, or one and a half presidents, or two different half presidents: we have, at least as far as legality goes, one president. And in, say, December 2016, that president wasn't Trump; it was Obama. Therefore, AIUI, if Trump was trying to actively conduct foreign policy during that time, in particular by trying to undermine Obama's, that is extremely illegal.

Here's the NYTimes on the subject:

Quote:
The lying is bad. Conducting rogue American foreign policy is worse.

In the end, Mr. Flynn’s lies are secondary to the demonstration that the Trump administration was actively undermining American foreign policy before it took office. This will most likely prove the most abiding scandalous fact of the Mueller investigation. And it’s one that nobody on either side of the aisle could possibly defend.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01 December 2017, 10:24 PM
Darth Credence's Avatar
Darth Credence Darth Credence is offline
 
Join Date: 28 October 2005
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,339
Default

The author of that article, Mr. Litman, is crazy if he thinks that the GOP can't defend Trump actively undermining US foreign policy. That's not even a hard one.

"President Trump was working hard to make America great again from the day he entered the race, and certainly from the day he won the election. That he began reaching out to other nations, and even that he started talking about his foreign policy direction, before being sworn in only shows that he is not a seasoned politician who knows all of the traditions of politics, but is rather an astute businessman who cut through the bureaucracy to help the nation. He should be lauded for doing so, while still agreeing that this is not the correct way to do things."

I feel like I now need a shower. But I can absolutely see Fox and Friends getting someone on air to say something just like that if it comes down to it.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01 December 2017, 10:39 PM
Lainie's Avatar
Lainie Lainie is offline
 
Join Date: 29 August 2005
Location: Suburban Columbus, OH
Posts: 73,961
Default

Flynn has a lot of nerve whining about being accused of treason, considering how close to the edge he skated.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02 December 2017, 03:29 AM
Avril's Avatar
Avril Avril is offline
 
Join Date: 07 August 2002
Location: Princeton, NJ
Posts: 10,522
Default

The White House seems to be claiming they did us all a favor by firing that former Obama administration employee. The gaslighting is strong.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03 December 2017, 04:15 PM
jimmy101_again jimmy101_again is offline
 
Join Date: 29 December 2005
Location: Greenwood, IN
Posts: 6,703
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASL View Post
I think one of the issues is whether or not it was disclosed. If it is required to be disclosed and wasn't disclosed, it doesn't matter what the reason was.

...right?
Depends on if someone is talking about a person they support or not. Republicans certainly thought Clinton lying to congress was sufficient cause to impeach regardless of what was being lied about. Let's see if republican congressman feel they same way way for a Turnip appointee. (I'm not holding my breath.)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03 December 2017, 04:57 PM
thorny locust's Avatar
thorny locust thorny locust is offline
 
Join Date: 27 April 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 8,358
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Credence View Post
The author of that article, Mr. Litman, is crazy if he thinks that the GOP can't defend Trump actively undermining US foreign policy.
I think you're unfortunately probably right about that; that is, I think that whether they can justifiably defend him, most at least of the upper echelon GOP will defend him. But it is still supposed to matter what the reason was; as well as supposed to matter whether people lied under oath.

The GOP used to be a party with some principles. I disagreed with some of those principles; but they did have them, and reasonable people of good intent could hold most of them. The only "principle" the upper echelon* GOP seems to have left at this point is that the GOP ought to be the ones to win the elections. And as the USA is very definitely not supposed to be a one-party system, that is (even aside from any other reasons against it) not a principle worth upholding.


*and, of course, some of the rest of the party; especially as I suspect many previous Republicans of good intent and reasonable principles have given up and left the party.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03 December 2017, 05:16 PM
Psihala's Avatar
Psihala Psihala is offline
 
Join Date: 28 February 2001
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 7,666
Default

Nonetheless, Trump is in full panic mode:

Trump says FBI's reputation "is in Tatters - worst in History!"

~Psihala
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04 December 2017, 03:24 PM
DawnStorm's Avatar
DawnStorm DawnStorm is offline
 
Join Date: 11 March 2003
Location: Montgomery County, MD
Posts: 15,854
Default

Gotta love the Random capitalization.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04 December 2017, 03:51 PM
Richard W's Avatar
Richard W Richard W is offline
 
Join Date: 19 February 2000
Location: High Wycombe, UK
Posts: 25,571
Default

I think he's capitalising the nouns, although that's a German characteristic rather than a Russian one. Thank goodness he's not been accused of sympathy with any particular groups that are historically associated with Germany...
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04 December 2017, 06:20 PM
Psihala's Avatar
Psihala Psihala is offline
 
Join Date: 28 February 2001
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 7,666
Jaded Trump lawyer: ‘The president cannot obstruct justice’

President Donald Trump's personal lawyer, John Dowd, revealed Monday a potential legal defense in the ongoing Russia probe, claiming that a president cannot obstruct justice.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...ustice-n826231
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04 December 2017, 06:57 PM
GenYus234's Avatar
GenYus234 GenYus234 is offline
 
Join Date: 02 August 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 24,978
Default

In surprising news, Alan Dershowitz has won this season's Dancing With the Stars for his amazing combination of contortionism and tap-dancing.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04 December 2017, 08:33 PM
musicgeek's Avatar
musicgeek musicgeek is offline
 
Join Date: 01 August 2005
Location: Fairfield, CT
Posts: 5,497
Default

I'm surprised there hasn't been more outrage over this particular tidbit:
Trump’s lawyer claims responsibility for president’s problematic tweet

So, either:

A) The president is allowing others to speak for him in his "voice," or
B) This is yet another inept attempt at @$$-covering in which a Trump underling is falling on his sword to take one for the team.

Either way (and my money's squarely on "B"), not too good, right? I haven't seen a lot of press on this - is there now an attempt by the White House to redefine Donald Trump's personal Twitter account as an official channel of White House communication, run by staffers? Or are we to believe that Dowd is telling the truth, but it was just a one-time thing?

We are at war with East Asia. We have always been at war with East Asia.
War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Secret Server, A Spy, and the FBI: Three New Explosive Trump Ties to Russia TallGeekyGirl Soapbox Derby 0 01 November 2016 04:34 PM
Was a Trump Server Communicating With Russia? TallGeekyGirl Soapbox Derby 0 01 November 2016 01:04 AM
Trump 'walks back' abortion statement(s) DawnStorm Soapbox Derby 29 12 April 2016 01:24 AM
Soldier, wife charged with making dog porn snopes Police Blotter 0 24 September 2013 04:42 AM
Texas teen charged with making terroristic threat after online joke A Turtle Named Mack Police Blotter 20 16 July 2013 03:10 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.