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  #21  
Old 11 November 2017, 01:17 PM
dfresh dfresh is offline
 
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The goal is to limit or eliminate all accusations against white Republican men. That is the only way we can have a good government.
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  #22  
Old 11 November 2017, 02:12 PM
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I think Moore's digging himself in deeper:

Quote:
"I don't remember dating any girl without the permission of her mother," Moore also said.
If somebody's young enough to need their mother's permission to date, then unless you're young enough that you need your own mother's permission you shouldn't be dating that person!
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  #23  
Old 11 November 2017, 02:21 PM
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And if you're 32 you aren't dating girls. Or you damn well shouldn't be.
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  #24  
Old 12 November 2017, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven " Matthew 5:17-20
Oh boy, Dueling Bible Quote!
Hebrews 8:6
But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.

Hebrews 9:11-15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Heck the idea that there would be a "New Covenant" predates Jesus and is explicitly stated in the the old testament.
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  #25  
Old 12 November 2017, 09:37 PM
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I was taught that Christ's "fulfilling" of the law specifically meant that Christians were not required to follow it.
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  #26  
Old 13 November 2017, 03:19 AM
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Yeah. Most mainstream Christian churches teach that based on NT verses (like Hebrews 7, which calls the law “weak and useless” and says it was set aside for Christ, who is a “better hope”).
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  #27  
Old 13 November 2017, 03:50 AM
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Except when there's something they want to justify something by invoking a passage from Deuteronomy or the Ten Commandments.
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  #28  
Old 13 November 2017, 06:05 AM
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Cherry picking. So tempting. Maybe that was the fruit the serpent offered Adam and Eve.
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  #29  
Old 13 November 2017, 11:24 AM
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Jonah Goldberg was on Morning Edition today (audio/transcript not yet available), and now I have one more reason to despise Roy Moore: he made me agree with Jonah Goldberg.
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  #30  
Old 13 November 2017, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:17-20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
I was taught that Christ's "fulfilling" of the law specifically meant that Christians were not required to follow it.
Doesn't that kind of ignore the part that I bolded?

-- although I suppose it could also be taken to mean that everybody's going to heaven anyway; but some people in heaven will have better reputations than others.
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  #31  
Old 13 November 2017, 01:17 PM
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The part you quoted is then followed by a list of commandments of how people should behave so the commandments Jesus referred to might not be the Old Testament ones.
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  #32  
Old 13 November 2017, 01:49 PM
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I'm going to let someone with a more orthodox Christian background answer TL's question.
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  #33  
Old 13 November 2017, 04:33 PM
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It's sad that it's still so likely that he'll win.

I think this is kind of a lose-lose for Republicans, because they really can't afford to lose senators and cut into their slim majority. But if they elect him it will be yet another embarrassment for the Republican brand. They've had a huge number of those, but a lot are centered around Trump which makes it easy to compartmentalize. But if the Republican noise machine starts turning out propaganda about how 32 year olds dating 14 year olds is fine, and then Republican voters go along with it as usual, that's a sensitive line being crossed for a lot of people.
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  #34  
Old 13 November 2017, 04:44 PM
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It is the slippery slope. First the Republicans will back a man who bragged on video of groping women, and was accused of assault. Then they elect a man who had sexual contact with a 14 year old. What next, pedophiles?
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  #35  
Old 13 November 2017, 04:47 PM
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The problem for the GOP of course is that if Moore withdraws, they almost certainly lose the seat, because it's too late to replace him on the ballot. They could attempt to mount a write-in campaign, but that's pretty iffy.

I wonder it some of them are thinking (particularly since the old-guard leadership like McConnell don't much care for Moore in the first place) that they can let him get elected, securing the seat -- and then expel him from the Senate (which they can do with a 2/3rds vote, and they may assume that most if not all Democrats would support). Then the (Republican) governor of Alabama would appoint a replacement who is still a solid party vote, but not a (known) insane pedophile.
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  #36  
Old 13 November 2017, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfresh View Post
It is the slippery slope. First the Republicans will back a man who bragged on video of groping women, and was accused of assault. Then they elect a man who had sexual contact with a 14 year old. What next, pedophiles?
Don't forget, that first man also talked about how he could go back stage at the pageants he ran and look at the women changing. Several women claimed that he did this at the Miss Teen USA beauty pageant. So they have already covered the underage bit in Trump - Moore doesn't seem like an escalation of that, at all, IMO.
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  #37  
Old 13 November 2017, 05:02 PM
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Whalephant McConnell on Moore: 'I believe the women,' Moore should go

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell believes the allegations against Alabama Republican Senate nominee Roy Moore and that Moore should leave the race, the Kentucky Republican said Monday.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/13/politi...ore/index.html
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  #38  
Old 13 November 2017, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
If somebody's young enough to need their mother's permission to date, then unless you're young enough that you need your own mother's permission you shouldn't be dating that person!
Shame on him. As a Good Old-Fashioned Christian, he clearly should have asked permission of her father.
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  #39  
Old 13 November 2017, 05:18 PM
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Kicking him out of the Senate would not do good things for the GOP's unity. If enough Democrats choose to reason amorally it'd make the political calculation interesting: kick Moore out and exacerbate internal GOP tensions but give McConnell a stronger hand; or leave Moore in and give the GOP more trouble in the Senate.
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  #40  
Old 13 November 2017, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
The part you quoted is then followed by a list of commandments of how people should behave so the commandments Jesus referred to might not be the Old Testament ones.
What's the "therefore" doing in there, then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
I'm going to let someone with a more orthodox Christian background answer TL's question.
I'm not necessarily expecting an answer. I'm only mildly curious as to how people go about explaining that one away.
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