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  #121  
Old 19 January 2016, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Little Pink Pill View Post
I think that's kind of what Lainie said in #113.
Yes, but I thought you didn't really engage the point of it, so I was trying it a different way. The point is that I don't think there is a meme that no refugee would commit a crime, or that all disabled people are good people. There are memes, as you point out, that deal with individualized manifestations of those things, but I'm sure ganzfeld is aware of those memes, and they are not illustrations of the ones in question.
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  #122  
Old 19 January 2016, 06:41 AM
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I see, thank you for clarifying.

I may have been guilty of nitpicking there, because Coughdrops specifically refered to a "general" overarching meme, and Ganz replied that he was not aware of such a "general" meme. I thought that was perhaps dismissive, so I addressed that generalization specifically.

If you would like me to engage further personally regarding this meme, I'll say that, generally, I do think that Americans' perception of the news is often colored by this narrative. People are quick to jump on a hard luck story, more likely to sympathize with, donate to, and read about it, and I think journalists are often guilty of exploiting this in their headlines and focus. Speaking on whether or not that has anything to do with international response to the events in Cologne would be speculation. I don't know that you can prove or disprove it, but in a conversation such as this one, I don't object to anyone wondering about a possible Disnefication of the tale.

My personal opinion is that if there was reluctance to believe it, report on it, etc, it was mostly in fear of igniting hate crimes and backlash, as well as in the hopes that it wasn't really as bad as people claimed. There was also perhaps a great deal of dismay. I know I was disheartened by the reports, as well as Germany's handling of it. I, for one, wanted a happier ending.

Last edited by Little Pink Pill; 19 January 2016 at 06:53 AM. Reason: Clarification.
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  #123  
Old 19 January 2016, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
I don't know anyone who expects everyone with a disability to be a good person
(off topic)

It's more kind of we're expected to be Inspiring, and Bear Our Burden Gladly - or at least silently. No one wants to hear you complain how shit it is. You get praise when you smile through the pain but ringing silence when you say it hurts, because no one wants to actually deal with the reality of it.

But people also don't want you to bear it too well, because then you can't possibly be that ill and you're just putting it on for attention.
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  #124  
Old 20 January 2016, 06:37 PM
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Default 'No means no': Norway sends migrants on anti-rape courses

Hå (Norvège) (AFP) - "She kissed him -- it's an invitation to have sex." The asylum seeker's answer hangs in the air. The instructor's smile falters, and an explanation is required.

In Norway, migrants are being given courses to prevent violence against women, especially rape, and to teach them how to interpret customs in a country that may seem surprisingly liberal to them.

http://news.yahoo.com/no-means-no-no...212933003.html


I'm glad this is being reported on, this is the kind of educational approach I was hoping for. They're opening up a good dialogue.
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"For me, I have no problem because my city is an open city and my sister, my mum, they're very similar to (the women) here," a 42-year-old Syrian tells AFP, asking to use the pseudonym Mikael Homsen.

"But I have friends, they come from a different culture, from a strict family. For them, any part a woman shows (is) a sign she wants to have sex," he says.
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  #125  
Old 21 January 2016, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Rebochan View Post
And it's a bit more thorough then "Eh, no grey in his beard." You really need to read these source articles.
No, it's really not. They look them over, and accept whatever age they say, because it's not verifiable. There is massive fraud with migrants claiming to be children to get a better deal, and nobody can say otherwise, unless it's completely obvious that they're way older. The science for determining age is not that conclusive to begin with, but it doesn't matter because they're not running a battery of tests on hundreds of thousands of alleged children. There's a flood of millions of refugees being checked over by a few people with clipboards. They have every reason to lie, and hardly any risk of being caught.

The recently publicized case of Yusupha Yaffa is getting attention because he's an athlete charged with a crime (as a "minor"), but this is a common practice. He claimed to be a 13 year old unaccompanied minor when claiming refugee status, but later verified to actually have been 22 years old at the the time, and he made a mistake, "accidentally" adding 9 years to his age. Which is easy to do when no paperwork or anything other than their word is required to establish an age.

He played for many years in youth Football leagues, despite being a twentysomething, before being arrested for rape. He would have faced juvenile court and a much more lenient sentence, before it was determined that he was an adult and should face an adult criminal court. A lot of teams fall for this, only to find out that these youths have already peaked and won't mature into stronger players the way that an actual child would.
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  #126  
Old 21 January 2016, 08:43 PM
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Oh course, if there is one known case from Italy in 2009 that proves that there are vast hordes of false minors in Germany in 2015 and 2016.
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  #127  
Old 21 January 2016, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
Oh course, if there is one known case from Italy in 2009 that proves that there are vast hordes of false minors in Germany in 2015 and 2016.
I already posted a link from an authority claiming there was massive fraud in claiming ages. Which some here chose to interpret as meaning there was not fraud for some reason. Why on Earth would there not be fraud, when there is no documentation and extra benefits for being young? That's why we have hundreds of thousands of unaccompanied youths, virtually all male, claiming to be teenagers. Human smugglers instruct them that's the best way to get asylum, if they look like they could pass as young at all.

This athlete isn't a unique case. It's a well known phenomenon that happens with some regularity when European youth leagues recruit migrants and they fail to grow as would be expected for their age, because they're already fully mature adult men with no documentation of their birth. This case got more publicity because he's also a rapist, and a 22 year old claiming to be 13 is even more egregious than usual.

Last edited by Errata; 21 January 2016 at 09:40 PM.
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  #128  
Old 21 January 2016, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Errata View Post
I already posted a link from an authority claiming there was massive fraud in claiming ages. Which some here chose to interpret as meaning there was not fraud for some reason. .
Because the link itself denied your claim in post #27 that no effort at all was made to determine ages, and said it was common to call in forensic doctors to help determine ages. See my post #35.

That is of course not at all the same thing as saying there is no fraud whatsoever and that young adult refugees never claim to be legal minors. But in the same fashion in which you're misstating what your cites say, you're misstating what others on this thread are saying.
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  #129  
Old 21 January 2016, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Errata View Post
No, it's really not. They look them over, and accept whatever age they say, because it's not verifiable.
So a week later and you still didn't read the article you linked, let alone my or thorny locust's posts pointing out this is false.
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  #130  
Old 21 January 2016, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
Because the link itself denied your claim in post #27 that no effort at all was made to determine ages, and said it was common to call in forensic doctors to help determine ages. See my post #35.
So your assertion based on a vague reference to doctors occasionally being used, is that the overwhelmed staff at refugee centers have more resources to apply to hundreds of thousands of alleged male children than AC Milan has to apply to a few football players? We know that Milan gives thorough physicals from highly skilled sports doctors to these recruits, which is a much higher level of scrutiny than these migrants are likely to routinely receive, but they still missed it. Because the medical science for this is not very exact to begin with, even if it were being applied uniformly, which it certainly is not. A small minority get extra screening, but only if they look so obviously older that they'd know to check for it. For the most part they don't make a fuss if it's remotely plausible that they could be young.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebochan View Post
So a week later and you still didn't read the article you linked, let alone my or thorny locust's posts pointing out this is false.
I did read it. I'm not as readily convinced by platitudes. Lots of people lie about it, which is a fact. They are motivated to do so, and it's harder to catch them at it then you seem to think. A few of the more obvious cheaters get screened by a very inexact science, but most don't.
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  #131  
Old 22 January 2016, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Errata View Post
We know that Milan gives thorough physicals from highly skilled sports doctors to these recruits.
Cite please.

Include a cite that they use forensic doctors to check age.

Also indicate the percentage of cases in which they allowed adults to play as minors, including a cite for that information. So far you've given one case in either 2013 or 2009, depending on whether you're talking about when he entered the country or when he signed the sports team. That's not a real big percentage. And again, nobody is claiming that it never happens. You're the one claiming that nobody even bothers to check -- a claim I've yet to see you acknowledge was incorrect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Errata View Post
A small minority get extra screening, but only if they look so obviously older that they'd know to check for it. For the most part they don't make a fuss if it's remotely plausible that they could be young..
Cite please.

Preferably one that doesn't contradict what you claim that it says.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Errata View Post
I'm not as readily convinced by platitudes. .
I'm not readily convinced by yours.

And I have the distinct impression that you're quite easily convinced by anything you agree with.
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  #132  
Old 22 January 2016, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Errata View Post
I did read it. I'm not as readily convinced by platitudes.
So when your source quotes people discussing how much rigor they apply to the process, you dismiss it outright because you just don't believe it happens?



Quote:
Lots of people lie about it, which is a fact. They are motivated to do so, and it's harder to catch them at it then you seem to think.
Just as you're not convinced by "platitudes", I'm not convinced by "It totally happens, uh huh! All the time! Just take my word for it!"

Quote:
A few of the more obvious cheaters get screened by a very inexact science, but most don't.
Forensic doctors aren't using exact science? I'm sure some still get by - your own source discussed how the rules are tightening to make it easier to bring in the doctors. But they're not taken simply at their word as you claim either. You have never proven this, not once.
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  #133  
Old 15 February 2016, 12:08 PM
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Cologne: Only three out of 58 men arrested in connection with mass sex attack on New Year's Eve are refugees

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Just three of the 58 suspects arrested in connection with the mass sex attack on women in Cologne on New Year’s Eve were refugees, it has been reported.

Refugees were blamed for more than 1,000 reports of theft, sex assault and rape of women at Cologne’s central train station - leading to a hardening of attitudes towards Chancellor Angela Merkel’s open door policy on refugees.

But of those arrested only three - two Syrians and an Iraqi - had recently arrived in Germany.
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  #134  
Old 04 March 2016, 05:09 PM
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BOSSES at a German waterpark are to segregate men and women following two horrific sex attacks. Men and teenage boys will be banned from using the waterslides at certain times when only women, girls and very young boys will be allowed access. It follows the confirmation earlier this week that police had arrested two asylum seekers from Afghanistan for a sex attack on two girls on the slides at the Arriba waterpark and swimming pool in Norderstedt, in northern Germany.


https://uk.news.yahoo.com/german-poo...113230901.html

You know the way some wonder if Trump is really an elaborate set up by the Dems to ensure re-election? I am beginning to wonder if the men and boys involved with these sex attacks are in the pay of the extreme right and are committing these crimes with the intention of getting mainstream Europeans on board with rejecting all migrants.
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  #135  
Old 11 July 2016, 09:05 PM
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Default Why it took half a year for the full extent of the New Year’s Eve assaults in Germany

When Europeans discuss whether the continent should accept more refugees, conversations often quickly turn toward one particular night: New Year's Eve.

Six months ago, groups of perpetrators assaulted women in Cologne, Hamburg and other cities. A new, leaked police document which was published by Germany's Sueddeutsche Zeitung newspaper and broadcasters NDR and WDR indicates that previous estimates of both the involved perpetrators and victims were far too low.

Authorities now say that more than 1,200 women were sexually assaulted across Germany that night, including about 400 in Hamburg and more than 600 in Cologne, by more than 2,000 men. Previous estimates had ranged in the dozens, both for the victims as well as suspects.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...y-to-be-known/
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  #136  
Old 30 December 2017, 11:11 PM
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Default Berlin sets up New Year’s Eve ‘safe zone’ for women amid sexual assault concerns

As thousands celebrate New Year's Eve at Berlin's iconic Brandenburg Gate on Sunday night, a team of medical professionals in a white tent only yards away will be standing by, waiting for possible victims of sexual assault and harassment to seek their help.

After mass sexual assaults occurred on New Year's Eve in several German cities two years ago, Berlin officials now work on the assumption that prevention efforts alone may no longer be sufficient at such large-scale events. Women will be able to speak to psychologists immediately after being assaulted or harassed in a “safe zone” at the Berlin New Year's Eve event.

While the presence of medical professionals and police officers at crowded event sites is nothing new, it is the first time such a dedicated area with experienced staffers will be set up in Berlin, and the first time that such an effort is being undertaken on New Year's Eve in Germany.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.20ae0fb257a3
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