snopes.com  

Go Back   snopes.com > SLC Central > Soapbox Derby

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 08 January 2016, 11:14 PM
thorny locust's Avatar
thorny locust thorny locust is offline
 
Join Date: 27 April 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 9,117
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Errata View Post
They are overwhelmingly young single men like these rapists, not vulnerable groups.
Just plain not true.


ETA: and actually, young men in that part of the world are quite vulnerable. They're vulnerable to being drafted into Daesh.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08 January 2016, 11:26 PM
Sue's Avatar
Sue Sue is offline
 
Join Date: 26 December 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,049
Default

My understanding is that most of the refugees making their way to Europe are not from Syria. I don't know the statistics but one cite I saw claimed it was something like 4 out of 5 migrants being from countries other than Syria - but since that was from the Daily Mail I am not convinced that that's accurate.

Last edited by Sue; 08 January 2016 at 11:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08 January 2016, 11:27 PM
crescent crescent is offline
 
 
Join Date: 13 August 2008
Location: Right here
Posts: 2,518
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
Just plain not true.


ETA: and actually, young men in that part of the world are quite vulnerable. They're vulnerable to being drafted into Daesh.
Your numbers are for all Syrian refugees regardless of where they have gone. Among those who went to Europe, 62% are male.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08 January 2016, 11:44 PM
Errata's Avatar
Errata Errata is offline
 
Join Date: 02 August 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 13,128
Default

I wasn't talking about refugees in Turkey. There are a lot more women and children there. And I wasn't talking about just Syrians. They aren't requiring proof of identity, so many of them aren't Syrian. And the ones who aren't, who aren't actually displaced from a war zone, are more likely to be male. The US is being a lot more selective than Europe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
They're vulnerable to being drafted into Daesh.
And we don't know which ones already have been, or whether they will be recruited later, in prisons and refugee camps.

If they let in everyone, whether they're from a vulnerable subset of the population or not, then they're also getting the same sorts who were victimizing them back in Syria. Women, apostates, and others are being abused in refugee camps, because everyone is being let through, even the ones they were trying to escape. And Germany has imported that instability into their own society rather than creating a safe refuge only for those who need it.

Last edited by Errata; 08 January 2016 at 11:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09 January 2016, 12:27 AM
thorny locust's Avatar
thorny locust thorny locust is offline
 
Join Date: 27 April 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 9,117
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
My understanding is that most of the refugees making their way to Europe are not from Syria. I don't know the statistics but one cite I saw claimed it was something like 4 out of 5 migrants being from countries other than Syria.
About 40% from Syria, apparently:

Quote:
The IOM estimates that more than 464,000 migrants have crossed into Europe by sea for the first nine months of 2015. Syrians fleeing their country's four-and-a-half-year-old civil war made up the largest group (39 percent). Afghans looking to escape the ongoing war with Taliban rebels (11 percent), and Eritreans fleeing forced labor (7 percent) made up the second and third largest groups of migrants, respectively. Deteriorating security and grinding poverty in Iraq, Nigeria, Pakistan, Somalia, and Sudan have also contributed to the migrant influx.
The demographics for the arrivals coming into Europe through the Mediterranean, overall:
25% children, 17% women, 58% men.


Quote:
Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Your numbers are for all Syrian refugees regardless of where they have gone. Among those who went to Europe, 62% are male.
That would make 38% women and children. Neither that figure, nor the 42% women and children given by my link above, could reasonably be considered the "very small minority" which Errata claimed to be anything other than "young single men" -- plus which, some of the adult men, I'm sure, are married. (Not that that has much to do with whether they might be rapists; rapists come married as well as single. They also come Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, atheist, and anything else you want to name that's got a significant number of humans in it.)

And, Errata, somebody forcibly conscripted into Daesh who manages to get to the EU might well willingly provide valuable information to those trying to stop Daesh. Could there conceivably be willing Daesh members among the refugees? Sure. But what's more likely to produce Daesh converts among citizens already in the EU, or in the USA for that matter? Turning their relatives away to starve or be murdered on the grounds of their religion, or taking them in and welcoming them into their new homes?

Not to mention that there's a very long stretch from arguing that refugees from those areas should be screened to reduce the chances that those who come in will be "the same sorts who were victimizing them back in Syria", to arguing that all of them "should stay in countries with a compatible culture".
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09 January 2016, 12:34 AM
Sue's Avatar
Sue Sue is offline
 
Join Date: 26 December 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,049
Default

I am very surprised that only 17% are women. In light of that I'd be interested in how they are defining children and what proportion of those children are teenage males. It would make a difference in terms of the overall perception that "most" of the migrants are men.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09 January 2016, 12:35 AM
Errata's Avatar
Errata Errata is offline
 
Join Date: 02 August 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 13,128
Default

The ones who are not Daesh mostly still want to dismantle secular, liberal values and turn Europe into someplace very much like the place they were leaving. Not being a terrorist doesn't mean they are open to adopting a new system of values that are compatible with European values. As a group they are extremely Islamic and opposed to everything that their defenders allegedly support. I don't think most Europeans want to live in Turkey, but they're going to turn Europe into Turkey, with demographic trends suggesting a Muslim majority in some countries this century. It's already starting to impact the freedoms that Europeans used to have in some areas; even though they're only a small minority still, they have an outsize impact and require everyone around them to adjust to their demands rather than attempting to fit in to the existing culture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
I am very surprised that only 17% are women. In light of that I'd be interested in how they are defining children and what proportion of those children are teenage males. It would make a difference in terms of the overall perception that "most" of the migrants are men.
Anyone who says they are a child is a child. There is no documentation required. If there isn't too much grey in their beard, they can be an "unaccompanied child", which some of the attackers in Cologne no doubt were.

Last edited by Errata; 09 January 2016 at 12:40 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09 January 2016, 01:11 AM
omegazord omegazord is offline
 
 
Join Date: 14 January 2015
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 64
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Errata View Post
The ones who are not Daesh mostly still want to dismantle secular, liberal values and turn Europe into someplace very much like the place they were leaving.
Cite, please.

Quote:
As a group they are extremely Islamic and opposed to everything that their defenders allegedly support.
Who exactly are their defenders? Which of their alleged defenders are you listening to? And, cite, please?

Quote:
I don't think most Europeans want to live in Turkey, but they're going to turn Europe into Turkey, with demographic trends suggesting a Muslim majority in some countries this century. It's already starting to impact the freedoms that Europeans used to have in some areas; even though they're only a small minority still, they have an outsize impact require everyone around them to adjust to their demands rather than attempting to fit in to the existing culture.
Honestly, I'm lost for words.


Substantiate your ignorant and bigoted claims or just don't.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09 January 2016, 01:44 AM
Rebochan's Avatar
Rebochan Rebochan is offline
 
Join Date: 19 February 2002
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 11,611
Devil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Errata View Post
The ones who are not Daesh mostly still want to dismantle secular, liberal values and turn Europe into someplace very much like the place they were leaving. Not being a terrorist doesn't mean they are open to adopting a new system of values that are compatible with European values. As a group they are extremely Islamic and opposed to everything that their defenders allegedly support. I don't think most Europeans want to live in Turkey, but they're going to turn Europe into Turkey, with demographic trends suggesting a Muslim majority in some countries this century. It's already starting to impact the freedoms that Europeans used to have in some areas; even though they're only a small minority still, they have an outsize impact and require everyone around them to adjust to their demands rather than attempting to fit in to the existing culture.
21st Century western values on full display here I see.

Funny how you weren't super concerned about an article just a few days ago that talked about the plight of female refugees, in particular how they're frequently victims of sexual assault from everyone around them and how some of the communities taking them in are trying to help out women in abusive situations.

It's almost like you didn't give two shits about sexual assault until you could play up a narrative where white Europeans are at risk from the barbarian horde. Because I sure haven't seen you supporting any of the other topics here where it's come up, and wow did you skim over my last couple of examples of how widespread the problem is in the US (including women being assaulted in public.)

Quote:
Anyone who says they are a child is a child. There is no documentation required. If there isn't too much grey in their beard, they can be an "unaccompanied child", which some of the attackers in Cologne no doubt were.
Well you didn't need a cite for Mein Kampf up there, you don't need a cite for this either
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09 January 2016, 01:53 AM
thorny locust's Avatar
thorny locust thorny locust is offline
 
Join Date: 27 April 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 9,117
Default

Cite, please, for any part of that?

-- whoops, before I can finish post spanked, more or less, by Rebochan. The above was directed to Errata.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 09 January 2016, 03:59 AM
Errata's Avatar
Errata Errata is offline
 
Join Date: 02 August 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 13,128
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebochan View Post
Funny how you weren't super concerned about an article just a few days ago that talked about the plight of female refugees, in particular how they're frequently victims of sexual assault from everyone around them and how some of the communities taking them in are trying to help out women in abusive situations.
I also didn't post on them killing over 100 people in France. It's just the new normal. This is the new standard of behavior that you accept, promote, and defend. Rape mobs in multiple cities is not business as usual, at least not for European cities. If it was another one in Egypt I probably wouldn't have commented, because that's to be expected at this point. We can't change other cultures if they don't want to change; the best we can do is not to import their problems, which is exactly what Germany and others are doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
Cite, please, for any part of that?
There were allegedly around 60,000 "unaccompanied minors" arriving in Germany in 2015, which is a lot. A high enough percentage that it would be very unlikely that none of the hundreds of refugees in the mob were older teens (or lying twentysomethings) in that category.

Why are so many refugee children traveling alone?

Quote:
Guess how old I am

Joachim Lenders, Chairman of the German Police Union in Hamburg, says that many of the minors, 90 percent of whom are young men, have no identification papers. Authorities are thus dependent upon their own powers of observation in verifying age and origin.

Beyond that, the only thing authorities have to go on are the statements offered by the refugees themselves. Lenders says, "A lot of cheating goes on there." No one wants to be 18, and thus be processed as an adult, for which asylum criteria are much stricter. It is not unusual for forensic doctors to be asked to provide age assessments. Word has apparently gotten out that unaccompanied young refugees enjoy a special amount of protection in Germany, that they are less likely to be deported and also receive more comprehensive help.
As a side note, note that it's police who say that 90 percent of this category are young men, which is much different than the profile of refugees in places like Turkey, or the US, but is more typical of the people taking advantage of Europes open borders right now.

It's to their advantage under the law to be children, there is no requirements for documentation, and it's not very easy to prove one way or the other. Thus it creates a large incentive for anyone to be an "unaccompanied" minor if they look even remotely plausible as one. If they aren't obviously middle aged they will generally not be called out on it, because it's hard to tell for sure.

Last edited by Errata; 09 January 2016 at 04:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 09 January 2016, 04:57 AM
Rebochan's Avatar
Rebochan Rebochan is offline
 
Join Date: 19 February 2002
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 11,611
Shifty Eyes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Errata View Post
I also didn't post on them killing over 100 people in France. It's just the new normal.
Yea, the last few times you kept ignoring when people posted evidence that these views are actively not supported by the majority of Muslims, let alone the majority of them living in France.

I guess I shouldn't also be surprised that you weren't terribly interested in the spike of violence against Muslims in the rest of the world in the aftermath. You know, such wonderful "secular values" as getting pushed in front of trains, beaten in public in front of their children, and increasingly having their places of worship set on fire.

It must have been the influence of Muslim values.

Quote:
This is the new standard of behavior that you accept, promote, and defend.
Who's "them" Errata? You've been called out in the past for your ridiculous generalizations of mass groups of people, that's why you're still being criticized now.

We have a word for that, you know, though I doubt you'll ever accept that it describes you because you're "just telling the truth".

Quote:
Rape mobs in multiple cities is not business as usual, at least not for European cities.
It's not business as usual anywhere.

The truth is, you already don't care about the rape of these women because you've focused entirely on using it to attack people you've never met. Again, stop with the pretending to care about the victims of the assaults.

Did you even know that the current German government doesn't even classify rape as a crime if the victim doesn't fought back?

There's a sick irony that the government has only stopped fighting an update to that law because of the threat of immigrants getting away with rape as opposed to good clean "secular" Germans getting away with rape...

Quote:
The German association of rape crisis centers and women's counseling center, the BFF, has documented over a hundred cases where attackers escaped sexual assault convictions because of this loophole. Some of these cases matched the circumstances in Cologne on New Year's Eve - a public place, a crowd, a surprise attack - and according to the BFF, "in general these acts end up without punishment for the attacker."

"When it comes to the acts in Cologne ... there is a difficulty when it comes to culpability," said BFF spokeswoman Katja Grieger. "We would hope that the police investigations in Cologne allow the perpetrators to be made responsible, but we fear that the punishments will mainly be for theft and robbery and not because of the sexual attacks."

Ferner agrees: "Surprise acts happen, as they probably did in Cologne. When you're groped on the breast or under the skirt, I can imagine that you could initially be so shaken that you don't say anything, and then, according to the current interpretation of the law, that may not be punished as sexual assault."
But right, I'm sure this is those sneaky Muslims fault, traveling back in time to rewrite Western laws to favor their diabolical culture.

Oh wait, what brought about this enlightened change to rape laws?

Quote:
The new amendment to the law, which would redefine how rape and sexual assault are understood, was triggered by the "convention on preventing and combating violence against women and domestic violence" adopted by the 47-member Council of Europe in Istanbul in 2011. The Istanbul Convention states that any "non-consensual" sexual act must be criminalized, and while Germany was among the first countries to sign it, the country has still not ratified or implemented it , unlike many other European countries (including Turkey).
GASP! You're right! Germany IS becoming more like Turkey!

Quote:
If it was another one in Egypt I probably wouldn't have commented, because that's to be expected at this point.
Exactly - you wouldn't have commented because to you, they're subhuman savages who deserve what they get for being born outside of a proper Western nation.

1.4 million of Boko Haram's displaced victims are children.

But hey, that's what they deserve.

Quote:
We can't change other cultures if they don't want to change; the best we can do is not to import their problems, which is exactly what Germany and others are doing.
I'd think the kind of people who get up and leave are the kind of people most willing to change. It's pretty hard for them to do so when they end up shoved into immigrant ghettos though - all the while being criticized for not properly "assimilating".

Quote:
There were allegedly around 60,000 "unaccompanied minors" arriving in Germany in 2015, which is a lot. A high enough percentage that it would be very unlikely that none of the hundreds of refugees in the mob were older teens (or lying twentysomethings) in that category.

Why are so many refugee children traveling alone?
At best your article supports that maybe some are getting through. But even their best source keeps hedging his bets to "It's just a feeling."

Quote:
Joachim Lenders, Chairman of the German Police Union in Hamburg, says that many of the minors, 90 percent of whom are young men, have no identification papers. Authorities are thus dependent upon their own powers of observation in verifying age and origin.
Beyond that, the only thing authorities have to go on are the statements offered by the refugees themselves. Lenders says, "A lot of cheating goes on there." No one wants to be 18, and thus be processed as an adult, for which asylum criteria are much stricter. It is not unusual for forensic doctors to be asked to provide age assessments. Word has apparently gotten out that unaccompanied young refugees enjoy a special amount of protection in Germany, that they are less likely to be deported and also receive more comprehensive help. Is that why so many young people are coming on their own? "There are rumors that there is a system behind the phenomenon. But it cannot be proven," explains Lenders. Human traffickers may brag about giving such travel tips, but Lenders is not buying it.
And it's a bit more thorough then "Eh, no grey in his beard." You really need to read these source articles.

And your sources in general, actually. You know, because they might point to things like your idea of a "secular" Europe are a lot of hogwash:

Slovakia vows to refuse entry to Muslim migrants

Quote:
"Multi-culturalism is a fiction. Once you let migrants in, you can face such problems," Fico said.

Slovakia is a Catholic country of 5.4 million people, who thus far have had next to no experience with immigrants. The country received only 169 asylum requests last year.
It's not like Catholic Church as an organization has ever had any trouble with mass coverups of rape that have gone unpunished. Repeatedly. Very recently.

Or openly uses its political clout to try and supress the rights of the gay community (because see, since you care so much about them, you were aware of this, right?)

Quote:
Similar views have also been heard from neighboring Hungary and Poland. Like Slovakia, the Hungarian government has also challenged mandatory quotas in court, with Prime Minister Viktor Orban repeatedly claiming that the influx of refugees into Europe threatens to undermine the continent's Christian roots.
Again, bolding is mine.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 09 January 2016, 07:02 AM
Little Pink Pill's Avatar
Little Pink Pill Little Pink Pill is offline
 
Join Date: 03 September 2005
Location: California
Posts: 7,053
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebochan View Post
It's not business as usual anywhere.
I really wish that was true, but women in other parts of the world are subject to gender specific mob violence more regularly than we are. The continuing Hassi Messaoud attacks in Algeria and recent issues in Egypt are examples that come to mind.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 09 January 2016, 07:23 AM
Rebochan's Avatar
Rebochan Rebochan is offline
 
Join Date: 19 February 2002
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 11,611
Heavt breathing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Pink Pill View Post
I really wish that was true, but women in other parts of the world are subject to gender specific mob violence more regularly than we are. The continuing Hassi Messaoud attacks in Algeria and recent issues in Egypt are examples that come to mind.
Fair enough - unstable authoritarian dictatorships are generally not safe places for women.

I don't think it changes my point that Errata is only selectively worried about the victims of sexual assault.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 09 January 2016, 03:06 PM
thorny locust's Avatar
thorny locust thorny locust is offline
 
Join Date: 27 April 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 9,117
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Errata View Post
I also didn't post on them killing over 100 people in France. It's just the new normal. This is the new standard of behavior that you accept, promote, and defend. Rape mobs in multiple cities
Who is "you"? Absolutely no one on this thread has accepted, promoted, or defended rape mobs, rape of any sort, or murder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Errata View Post
We can't change other cultures if they don't want to change
Daesh is trying to do exactly that.

And you have brought no evidence whatsoever that people fleeing Daesh don't prefer the culture they're trying to flee to. The fact that they risk their lives to get there provides at least some evidence that they think the European culture is preferable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Errata View Post
There were allegedly around 60,000 "unaccompanied minors" arriving in Germany in 2015, which is a lot. A high enough percentage that it would be very unlikely that none of the hundreds of refugees in the mob were older teens (or lying twentysomethings) in that category.
"Allegedly" is not a cite. Your wild guess that it would be "very unlikely" that none of them were in the mob is not a cite. You have not provided a cite as to how many of the mob were refugees. And even if one or more of the people in the mob were among those 60,000 unaccompanied minors who arrived in 2015, they would still have been a tiny percentage of 60,000: so most of those 60,000 were not in the mobs.

Nobody is claiming that all of those 60,000 were saints, or that none of them might ever turn out to be criminals. But if you take 60,000 German citizens, all of them Christian descendents of multiple generations of German citizens, there are going to be some criminals among them too. And there are aspects of that culture, also, which encourage rape. Take a look at the OP story of this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Errata View Post
[Why are so many refugee children traveling alone?]

If they aren't obviously middle aged they will generally not be called out on it, because it's hard to tell for sure.
The single cite you do provide does not say what you seem to think that it says.

For one thing:

Quote:
It is not unusual for forensic doctors to be asked to provide age assessments.
Are they always going to get it right? Of course not. But what you said, in addition to "they will generally not be called out on it", was

Quote:
Originally Posted by Errata View Post
Anyone who says they are a child is a child.
They're not only doing their best to determine age; they're going so far as to pull in forensic doctors. They are not simply accepting that anyone who says they're a child is a child.

For another thing, the article doesn't claim they're terrorists. It claims that they're sent ahead to try to get the rest of their families in:

Quote:
It seems that above all, young men are sent off to Germany in hopes of establishing a foothold, allowing the entire family to follow them at a later date. Such family reunions are regulated by a refugee's residency status. "I know several men from Afghanistan," says Daniela Ludwig, "who are here because an entire village put all of their money together to pay a human trafficker to smuggle them in. Those in the village decide that a particular young man has got what it takes to make the journey, that he'll make it to Germany, and that they'll profit from it at home as well when he does."
Now you may think that's reprehensible. But that's how very many of the ancestors of the current population of the USA got here, though some of them managed it before traffickers were necessary because when you go back far enough immigration was easier. A family, or sometimes a group of families, picked the person most likely to both succeed in the new country and also thought least likely to fail to help the rest of them (in at least one case that I know of a Jewish family chose a teenage girl, not a boy), pooled their funds, and got that one person here. Once enough money built up, that person sent for more of the family; and so on. Eventually there'd be lots of new US citizens; some of whom, all too often, proceeded to snarl at whoever the next batch was who were trying to get in. Go hunt up your family history, Errata. Sure there's nobody like that back there somewhere?
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 09 January 2016, 03:25 PM
Sue's Avatar
Sue Sue is offline
 
Join Date: 26 December 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,049
Default

The point I am seeing though is that in Germany 90% of the unaccompanied minors are young men. That definitely IMO skewers the stats given earlier even further assuming this holds true for other EU countries. In other words if only 17 % are women and of the 23 % who are children the majority of those are young men then I can certainly understand better now some of the concern that is being expressed by those actually on the ground in these countries as opposed to those of us who have the luxury of reading about it and of knowing that our countries are only taking in very carefully vetted and selected refugees - and of them the majority being family groups.

Last edited by Sue; 09 January 2016 at 03:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 09 January 2016, 04:07 PM
crocoduck_hunter's Avatar
crocoduck_hunter crocoduck_hunter is offline
 
Join Date: 27 May 2009
Location: Roseburg, OR
Posts: 12,450
Default

Do we even have proof that these alleged rape mobs are made up of either Muslims or immigrants?
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 09 January 2016, 04:21 PM
Sue's Avatar
Sue Sue is offline
 
Join Date: 26 December 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,049
Default

If the majority of refugees in Germany right now are young men who are bored, frustrated and have little to do it's not too surprising that there are going to be some of them who get into trouble. It's a recipe for disaster even if most of them aren't involved in "rape mobs". Ignoring this by trying to make it seem like most asylum seekers are family groups certainly isn't going to help anyone.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 09 January 2016, 04:27 PM
thorny locust's Avatar
thorny locust thorny locust is offline
 
Join Date: 27 April 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 9,117
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
The point I am seeing though is that in Germany 90% of the unaccompanied minors are young men. That definitely IMO skewers the stats given earlier even further assuming this holds true for other EU countries. In other words if only 17 % are women and of the 23 % who are children the majority of those are young men then I can certainly understand better now some of the concern that is being expressed by those actually on the ground in these countries as opposed to those of us who have the luxury of reading about it and of knowing that our countries are only taking in very carefully vetted and selected refugees - and of them the majority being family groups.
You're assuming it does hold true for all EU countries.

[ETA: the link I posted earlier says that for Syrian refugees, at least, 6.5% of the total are males claimed to be between 12 and 17. Presumably at least some of them -- especially in the case of 12 and 13 year olds -- actually are that young; so the amount by which it would change the figures in that link if some of them are lying, or even if we include say actual 15 through 17 year olds as not qualifying as "children", is less than 6.5%. 21.5% are claimed to be males between 18 and 59. 59 is hardly "young men". You're still going to have very much a minority of the Syrian refugees, at least, as qualifying to be "young men"; probably still in the range of 20% or fewer; even if you take every male from 12 to 59 you only get 28%, and I can't imagine that everyone claimed as 12 to 14 or as 50 to 60 is actually in their late teens or twenties, it's got to be less than that. And some of that 28% are undoubtedly travelling with their families.

And, of course, the figure from Germany is specifically of unaccompanied minors. It's not a percentage of total minors, (and one would expect most younger children to be accompanied); nor is it a percentage of total refugees. So taking that 90% figure as if it means that almost none of the immigrants are in family groups is badly misleading.]

And the article says that what these young men are trying to do is to get the rest of their families in. They're not, according to the article, lone wolves trying to prey on the EU; they're representatives of those "family groups", trying to group back up.

And I have not been objecting to any country doing their reasonable best to vet refugees. I've been objecting to claims that they all ought to be rejected flat out, with the possible exception of a "tiny minority", on the grounds that their entire "culture" supposedly requires rape mobs and murder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
Do we even have proof that these alleged rape mobs are made up of either Muslims or immigrants?
As far as I know, all we have are statements from some of the victims and/or witnesses that they were "reportedly of Arab or North African appearance".

Last edited by thorny locust; 09 January 2016 at 04:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 09 January 2016, 04:57 PM
Sue's Avatar
Sue Sue is offline
 
Join Date: 26 December 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,049
Default German police chief fired over handling of New Year's Eve assaults

Cologne's police chief has been fired amid criticism of his force's handling of a string of New Year's Eve assaults and robberies. Wolfgang Albers was sent into early retirement by the state government, Cologne police said Friday. He had faced mounting criticism both for the police's handling of last week's events and of the fallout. Some 121 women were reportedly robbed, threatened or sexually molested by gangs of mostly drunk men between 18 and 35 years old while out celebrating.

(snip)

Ministry spokesman Tobias Plate told a news conference that federal police had identified 31 people who played a role in the violence, 18 of whom were in the process of seeking asylum in Germany.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/cologne...fied-1.3394901

What happens to asylum seekers who are accused of and then convicted of a crime? In most cases it's not like they can send them back. I doubt they would be granted asylum (I guess that would depend on the crime though) so where do they go?

Last edited by Sue; 09 January 2016 at 05:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Woody Allenís Adoptive Daughter Speaks Out About Her Sexual Assault Sue Amusement Bark 113 22 January 2018 12:40 PM
Porn Star Sues Josh Duggar for Assault and Battery After Alleged Sexual Encounter TallGeekyGirl Amusement Bark 17 13 February 2016 01:25 PM
California Lawmakers Pass 'Affirmative Consent' Sexual Assault Bill WildaBeast Social Studies 19 30 August 2014 06:07 PM
Daily Show provides advice for combating sexual assault she-geek Soapbox Derby 0 03 July 2014 06:11 PM
Italian protester charged with sexual assault after kissing riot police officer A Turtle Named Mack Police Blotter 2 17 December 2013 03:05 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.