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Old 16 July 2018, 06:10 PM
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ASL ASL is offline
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Originally Posted by UEL View Post
One poster's arguments were based upon the American intervention being used to "bring about liberal democracy and freedom", while Russians were just looking to "further their narrative".

Another posted that the US was doing for national security reasons, while the Russians were doing it for political reasons.

I countered with examples (from the Foreign Policy infographic) where liberal democracy and freedom were not the result of American intervention, nor were they the intent. The other part of my debate was throwing out the question how US intervention in the elections in Yemen were benefitting US national security.
Did anyone ever just say, "It was wrong then and it's wrong now"?
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Old 16 July 2018, 07:59 PM
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GenYus234 GenYus234 is offline
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I assume they were referring to CIA (or other groups) actions to surreptitiously alter the outcome of an election, not attempts to ensure a legitimate count of votes?
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Old 22 July 2018, 12:53 AM
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Richard W Richard W is offline
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I almost put this in Unhijackable, but this was the thread it first reminded me of, so here it is:

Ballymena United anger over race car pitch damage

Essentially there's a football pitch in Northern Ireland which has a stock car racing track around the outside. The grass on the pitch was recently replaced in an expensive refurbishment. Then at the next race meeting, a car came off the track and tore it up.

Watch the video, and read the comments from the guy who is in charge of the car racing... essentially, there's no way these two sports are compatible, and the football guy is being as reasonable as possible, but the racing guy is trying to put blame on individual drivers (in the written comments, not the video) while saying he's done everything possible to prevent the inevitable situation.

It's not really his fault either; it seems to be that these two sports are fundamentally incompatible and shouldn't be taking place in the same arena! And since the arena is (being defined in the article as) a football pitch, the football guy comes off looking much more reasonable than the racing guy who's trying to find out which particular driver knocked into the driver that drove onto the pitch so that he can ban him.

As I said, the article immediately made me think of this thread so I've put it here. I have no idea how it relates in detail.

Last edited by Richard W; 22 July 2018 at 01:03 AM. Reason: Added a parenthesis for neutrality
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Old 22 July 2018, 01:35 AM
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Beachlife! Beachlife! is offline
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The pitch comes right to the edge of the track. There is no way this will work. Its impossible to keep all the cars on the track and chasing down individual drivers is BS. Nobody is intentionally driving on the pitch.

There is no way to make this work with the current configuration. If they built a wall it would interfere with the football and it would be dangerous for the drivers. There isn't a temporary wall they could put in place in any reasonable timeframe. There just isn't enough room to make it work.
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Old 23 July 2018, 12:42 PM
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Richard W Richard W is offline
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Another article, a bit more on point this time:

In this grim age of Trump and Brexit, online fury is a dead end for the left

Says a few things that I was trying to get at earlier:

As proved by the treatment of everyone from Hillary Clinton to such “Blairites” as Hodge, the harshest invective sometimes seems reserved for people who were once considered to be on the same side. The ageless dictum that progressives should “be the change you wish to see in the world” often seems to have died a death.

Besides, our degraded discourse chiefly benefits the very forces that the left wants to defeat. It is no accident that as the war of online shouting escalates, the world is being menaced by a gang of political players – from Trump and his former lieutenant Steve Bannon, to Nigel Farage and the irksome Brexit donor Arron Banks – whose shared project seemingly amounts to an attempt to explode the internet on a daily basis and thereby nullify meaning, sow mistrust and break as many things as possible, in the vague hope that some kind of nationalistic, small-state future might rise from the rubble.
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