![]() |
|
![]() |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#21
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
But that doesn't mean that what he actually delivered was something that could work, any more than their hunting for an alternate passage meant that they'd find one. They actually did find one, IIRC, but it came out in the wrong place, too far from the boys to be any help. Once they realized it didn't go anywhere useful for the purpose, they didn't keep trying to use it; and once they realized that the sub as delivered couldn't work, they weren't going to try to use it, either. (Alarm, there isn't any need to hold my breath here in my office, either . . . ![]() |
#22
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
My point was not that it was useable for the route they took. Clearly not. But people were saying he did this without consulting with or getting encouragement from the expert rescuers on scene. That was apparently not true.
And my other point was that there was a lot of doubt initially that they would be able to get them out via the same way the rescuers got to them. Cave diving is extremely difficult, even for highly experienced scuba divers. The idea of taking children who could not swim and putting scuba gear on them and getting them through a very difficult and gruelling cave dive was almost as ridiculous as that sub. That why initially, they said they might have to stay where they were for months until rainy season was over. Musk is still a jerk and full of himself and should delete his Twitter account. But I'm not sure it's fair to fault him for trying to do something in case it would be helpful. He should have shut up about it when it became clear it would not be. |
#23
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
I don't think anyone is trying to fault him for trying to be helpful; at least, not on this thread.
I think people are faulting him a) for insisting that the sub would have worked to get the boys out when it actually wouldn't and b) for throwing a libelous snit fit at people who said that it wouldn't work for the specific purpose. 'I want to help!' is a good thing. 'I'm willing to put time and money into trying to build something that will help!' is an even better thing. 'I'm going to insist that I succeeded in making something that would have helped even though I didn't!' is not a good thing. 'I'm going to say terrible things, without any evidence for them, about anyone who objects to my claims that it would have worked!' is a very bad thing. |
#24
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
I have no problem with a) and b), and fully agree with them. |
#25
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
Why doesn't the first of those fit?
It's not a criticism in itself; it just points out why the thing wouldn't work, despite Musk's insisting that it would have. If it would have worked, there would be nothing wrong with his saying so. It's because it wouldn't that he shouldn't be saying so. The second one does appear to be false. But it's still not a criticism of Musk for trying to help; it's a criticism of him for not consulting as to what help was needed, which, although false, is not the same thing as criticizing him for trying to help. |
#26
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
I think we're reading things differently in what may be subtle ways. (E.g., I did not say he was being criticized for "trying to help.") But I don't want to have one of those meanings of words kind of debates, especially on behalf of that guy. I'll just say that I think there's ample criticism to heap on him for the two points you listed, which I fully agree with.
|
#27
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
![]() -- thorny -- picking nits since the 1950's -- locust |
#28
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
You can if you want to. I didn't mean to set myself up to get the last word -- I actually took out my main response because if I say I don't want to have that kind of debates, then it isn't fair to have my say, followed by "and now this debate is over." You should definitely respond if you want to. It could be edifying to see what was unclear.
|
#29
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
Ignoring whether his plan would have succeeded for the moment...
I think it's unfair to say that Musk's offer of help was just a PR stunt, but at the same time I think his response afterwards demonstrates that it wasn't just about wanting to help either. If he had just cared about the well-being of the trapped children he would have been disappointed that he couldn't help, naturally, but relieved all the same that the rescue was successful without him. But I think if it was a simple PR stunt he wouldn't have been so upset by the criticism that he dug himself deeper, scorched his own earth and then shot himself in the foot for good measure. Devious, duplicitous businessmen tend to know that they're devious, duplicitous businessmen. In my experience, when things go wrong for them they usually try to keep their heads down until it all blows over and they can move on to the next stunt. It looks very much to me like the actions of somebody who just wanted to be a hero. Regardless of his ulterior motives or lack of them, I think being the hero meant more to him than the eventual rescue. This is why he retaliated the way he did... because those who stop the hero from performing their feats of heroism must, after all, be the villains. For one of the rescuers to be a villain, Musk had to assume there was something untoward about him, something that everybody would agree is an evil trait. That would make him, Musk, the hero again - albeit the hero thwarted. I know I'm assuming a lot, but it wouldn't be the first time a technically intelligent person has thought like a child. |
#30
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
I think maybe I am running this thing into the ground, though; and quite possibly I should leave it alone. But, just in case it clarifies, what I took to mean 'criticizing him for trying to help' was this:
And I agree with you that faulting Musk for that wouldn't be fair; I just don't think that's what people were doing. |
#31
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
I meant something subtly different from "criticizing him for trying to help."
I agree that he was not being criticized for trying to help. But he was being criticized for trying to do a particular thing -- building a tiny submarine -- in case it could help. The criticism was because in retrospect that particular thing wouldn't have worked for the particular way the kids were rescued. I don't think when he started that it was known how the kids would be rescued. He is also an idiot for insisting now that it would have worked. I look forward to the video of someone trying to get it through that route. I assume it will be posted promptly, as Elon Musk has a self-effacing hearty laugh at himself. Last edited by erwins; 18 July 2018 at 01:32 AM. |
#32
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Elon Musk made a qualified apology Wednesday for calling one of the rescuers of a youth soccer team from a Thai cave a “pedo” — but the Tesla CEO still managed to take a swipe at the media.
The billionaire said his slur — posted on Twitter where he has 22 million followers — was made “in anger” following criticism of his mini-submarine rescue idea. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/e...r-pedo-n892296 |
#33
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
From the linked article:
Quote:
(*Classy as never, Elon.) |
#34
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
Quote:
The sub he did get built might be useful in some other rescue situation entirely; that I don't know. If so, it was certainly worth building. |
#35
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
I do give him a point for not doing a non-apology.
Then take it back again for leading into the apology with a "he started it!". |
#36
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
And he said that "stick his submarine where it hurts" was a suggestion that he "engage in a sexual act with the mini-sub". How very literal! I have never taken the stick-it-where-the-Sun-don't-shine seniment as being sexual, only painful. I wonder if Musk takes every "F*** you" comment directed at him as a come-on.
|
#37
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
He's still at it:
https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...thout-evidence Never mind his previous public comments to the effect of "if it wasn't true, why hasn't he sued me?" which didn't make it to this thread. This time it was in an email to a reporter that Musk had tried to single-handedly declare was "off the record": Quote:
I've also read lately that Musk has been working 120-hour weeks (constant 17-hour days) and not leaving his office for days at a time. It definitely sounds like he needs a break. Maybe he could use one twentieth of his net worth to hire, say, another ten executives at ten million dollars a year each for the next ten years. You'd probably be able to get some good people for ten million dollars a year, and it would take the strain off. I'm sure he could find a way to put that small fraction of his worth into a form that would pay for it, even assuming he spends the capital rather than using it to generate an income. |
#38
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
I don't want to contribute to the idea that mental illness explains jerkdom, and I fully believe Musk to be a garden-variety jerk no matter what else he's got going on, but working 17-hour days when you don't have to has a whiff of mania. Is anyone in his life in a position to point out to him that he doesn't seem well?
|
#39
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
I would think it very likely that he's in a state of chronic extreme sleep deprivation, which can cause quite a bit of mental disturbance on its own.
|
#40
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
I can vouch for that.
|
![]() |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Elon Musk drawn into farting unicorn dispute with potter | Gutter Monkey | Crash and Burn | 13 | 25 July 2018 03:20 PM |
Elon Musk accuses the media of "sugarcoating" lies | Psihala | Business Bytes | 29 | 07 June 2018 06:31 PM |
Trump Lashes Out at GOP Sen. — Who Then Calls White House ‘an Adult Day Care Center' | Psihala | Soapbox Derby | 8 | 16 October 2017 06:06 PM |
The urban myth of Sir Bob Geldof's legendary Live Aid outburst | snopes | Entertainment | 3 | 01 January 2011 05:43 PM |
Kanye West's Katrina outburst was 'worst moment' of Bush's presidency? | Simply Madeline | Hurricane Katrina | 16 | 15 November 2010 02:11 PM |