Airline passengers must use the bathroom before boarding

[snopes]

Comment: As an airline pilot, I'm always interested in airline rumors.
The latest one that sounds bunk to me is: In an effort to save weight
(and decrease fuel burn), an Asian airline has begun REQUIRING passenger
to use the bathroom prior to boarding. The waste weight would not carried
on board, and thus save the fuel required to carry the extra weight.

If this is true, I would love to hear how they have coped with the
logistics of implementing this plan.

[llewtrah]

While most of the stories link back to CNN, it seems the Daily Mail (not the most trusted source) ran the story first.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/BUSINESS...let/index.html on 8th Oct:

The unusual request by All Nippon Airways (ANA) is part of its "e-Flight" promotional program to reduce the amount of carbon expelled on 38 domestic routes and its twice daily international flights to Singapore.

"Asking passengers to go to the toilet (before boarding) is just a small part of the program," said spokeswoman Megumi Tezuka, which includes using recycled paper cups and plastic bottles instead of glass.

I found various other references (PPruNe is always worth visiting for aviation-related stories) tracing back to CNN and I couldn't find a link back to a Japanese source.

Then I noticed that http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...-boarding.html also has the story, but not credited to CNN and dated 6th Oct, while the CNN version is dated 8th Oct.

http://www.japantoday.com/category/t...efore-boarding - has the story dated 15th Oct, well after the Daily Mail and CNN.

As for implementing the plan - Japan seems an orderly society when it comes to doing business (my Japanese customers can drive me mad sometimes) and Singapore is extremely instruction-abiding so it wouldn't be hard or need much enforcing.

[purpleiguana]

I don't think that it's asking so much to ask passengers to pee before the board, but how much weight would you actually be losing, and how much would that add to your fuel economy? And what about the people who have a big drink of something before they board, but it hasn't gotten through to their bladder yet? Will they provide laxatives/enemas for their chronically constipated travelers? (Okay, I was being really flip with that last one. )

[WildaBeast]

This generated a rather lengthy discussion on an aviation board I often read. The airline in question is Japan's All Nippon Airways, and as far as I can they're simply encouraging passengers to relieve themselves before the flight, not requiring them to do so.

Here's one article I was able to turn up on the subject.

[llewtrah]

Originally Posted by WildaBeast

Here's one article I was able to turn up on the subject.

Again, that one references the CNN article which came out 2 days after the Daily Mail story.

[WildaBeast]

Originally Posted by llewtrah

Again, that one references the CNN article which came out 2 days after the Daily Mail story.

Well yes, but when I posted that I didn't know I was going to be spanked.

[Arriah]

Originally Posted by purpleiguana

I don't think that it's asking so much to ask passengers to pee before the board, but how much weight would you actually be losing, and how much would that add to your fuel economy? And what about the people who have a big drink of something before they board, but it hasn't gotten through to their bladder yet? Will they provide laxatives/enemas for their chronically constipated travelers? (Okay, I was being really flip with that last one. )

Obviously it can vary quite a bit but on the rare occasion that I have weighed myself just before and just after using the toilet I have seen a difference of up to 3 pounds. Since that's not every time you could probably safely average a loss of 1.5 pounds per session. If you want to assume that for every passenger going before they go () you'd get 1.5 pounds x # of passengers. Add in a x # of flights x fuel economy boost for less weight and you've saved... something. I can see how it would add up if everyone did it for every flight.

[Dr. Dave]

Originally Posted by purpleiguana

I don't think that it's asking so much to ask passengers to pee before the board, but how much weight would you actually be losing,

Just calculating for pee, say a person urinates around 250 mL of urine. Specific gravity is around 1.020, so 250 ml ~= 250 grams. For every 100 people on the plane, that is 25000 grams, or 25 kg. And that is if they all needed to go.

I do not know anything about the weight of planes or the effect of a % increase in weight on fuel consumption. I would think that it was the small planes that would be affeted the most (those ones where they weigh every piece of luggage to be sure), but those have like 10-20 passengers, so 5-10 pounds at most saved.

ETA: See post above mine. MMV of course. (though 250 mL ~= 1/2 pound)

[Eddylizard]

Unless I'm mistaken:

It is desireable to land an aircraft with as little weight onboard as possible - that is as close to zero fuel as possible with a comfortable but not excessive emergency reserve.

The hold baggage is weighed.

Cargo is weighed.

Each passenger is averaged out at a certain weight - 80 kg? because it would raise sensitivity issues if the airline weighed their travellers. Though being ranty some people are increasingly taking the piss with their carry on. I mean NFBSK me a suitcase is not carry on. Really! You've saved a couple of quid - congratulations - but a different rant for a different day. Anyway, self loading baggage isn't weighed.

And all that goes into the fuel equation. X kilogrammes of cargo plus Y kilogrammes of passenger baggage plus the averaging of the total weight of Y passengers, times the flight distance, divided by the aircrafts fuel economy plus a bit in case we have to circle the airport a few times, or diverte to our alternate - that's how much fuel we want. The pilots don't want to run out of fuel, but the pilots don't want to land heavy.

However I can't imagine that the human waste in the passengers combined makes a jot of difference in that equation which is part pure numbers, and part pure guesswork.

I've no idea what an average turd weighs - let's assume half a kilogramme which I think would be on the generous side, So 300 passengers = 150 kilogrammes of feaces that could have been lost at the airport. Okay, 150 Kg of fuel gets a jetliner how far? How much of a saving is 150 kg of self loading cargo?

[purpleiguana]

Originally Posted by Eddylizard

Unless I'm mistaken:

It is desireable to land an aircraft with as little weight onboard as possible

It's also desirable to board an aircraft with as empty a bladder as possible for the sake of comfort. You never know when/if you're going to be able to go on an airplane. (Some of those little puddle-jumper airplanes either have no toilet or else are not at cruising altitude long enough to turn off the seat belt light.)

I've no idea what an average turd weighs - let's assume half a kilogramme which I think would be on the generous side, So 300 passengers = 150 kilogrammes of feaces that could have been lost at the airport. Okay, 150 Kg of fuel gets a jetliner how far? How much of a saving is 150 kg of self loading cargo?

Thank you, that was the point I was trying to make. Is the savings in weight really worth it in mileage of your average airplane? I'm sure the savings would be more noticeable in a puddle-jumper... but it's also a smaller airplane with fewer passengers on board... so it might actually work out to be a wash.

[Xia]

They should also require passengers to not eat or drink that day before they get on the plane. That could save a lot of weight as well.

[E. Q. Taft]

Personally, they don't need to ask me this. I'm apt to use the bathroom before boarding so as to reduce the chances I'll have to use the onboard toilets...

[Eddylizard]

Originally Posted by Xia

They should also require passengers to not eat or drink that day before they get on the plane. That could save a lot of weight as well.

They could also save weight by not insisting on giving out, and therefore having to haul, those little bags of peanuts or pretzels (who the bloody hell wants a miniature bag of peanuts at 3am let alone considers it a courtesy?)

Carrying all galley drinks in polybottles rather than aluminium cans.

Not giving you a meal that no-one wants - refer point 1 above re- 'eating at 3am'

Reducing the thickness of airfreight pallets by 1/16" (seriously those buggers are heavy and very overengineered - I'm lucky to still have all the fingers I was born with).

Obliterating the duty free trolley - there is duty free at the airport terminal and since you can't buy any without your boarding pass I'm sure a fair division of revenue could be worked out between the airlines and the airports; some system where you collect it up from ground based staff after deplaning the other end, so it never has to be on the plane cannot be impossible.

Remove the inflight magazines. I've never ever seen anyone read one. Give me my seatback - back! I do permit the safety card, because in the very unlikely event we will actually survive a crash into the ocean at probably more than the speed of sound, the instructions might prove useful - and it doesn't take up much room. I've never actually known or witnessed anyone who's used the barf bag, but that can stay too.

And if the worst came to the worst not giving the aircrew uniforms so they have to work in the nude. We could temporarily or permamntly tattoo them with their rank etc.

[E. Q. Taft]

Originally Posted by Eddylizard

And if the worst came to the worst not giving the aircrew uniforms so they have to work in the nude. We could temporarily or permamntly tattoo them with their rank etc.

I think they should have passengers fly nude, too. This would certainly make it more difficult for terrorists to smuggle weapons aboard....

[diddy]

Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft

I think they should have passengers fly nude, too. This would certainly make it more difficult for terrorists to smuggle weapons aboard....

I think it was Dennis Leary that jokingly proposed an airline called "Bare Ass Air" with just that requirement - everyone flies naked.

[TrishDaDish]

Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft

Personally, they don't need to ask me this. I'm apt to use the bathroom before boarding so as to reduce the chances I'll have to use the onboard toilets...

Besides, you know the chances of getting to use an onboard toilet? I swear it's always a kajillion passengers, one toilet, and they all have to go at once. No wonder we switched to riding trains in my family.

[Eddylizard]

Not to mention the fun of getting a window seat on a widebody and having to clamber over fellow passengers eith their co-operation to reach the aisle.

Double points if it's a redeye flight. Then you can almost guarantee at least one of them will be asleep. "Now do I wake them up, or can I hold it in for another ten hours?"

[Floater]

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