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  #21  
Old 23 August 2018, 04:29 PM
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Here we go again...

Trump claims former longtime lawyer Michael Cohen worked for him 'part time'

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President Donald Trump, in an effort to distance himself from his longtime former personal lawyer Michael Cohen, claimed Cohen worked for him “part time” and was just one of many attorneys he had on his payroll.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...m-part-n903071

~Psihala
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  #22  
Old 23 August 2018, 04:33 PM
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Even assuming that is true (HA!), the fact that a lawyer worked for you part time does not mean you couldn't have directed him to perform illegal actions. It only takes a few minutes to write a check from campaign funds instead of from Trump's accounts.

ETA: It's like the "light treason" defense from Arrested Development or only being "a bit" pregnant.

FETA:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lord_feldon View Post
In a hijack, why were Abbate and Falcone tried for the conspiracy in the case that led to Abbate v. United States? As soon as McLeod moved forward with the conspiracy, they contacted the police about it.

Last edited by GenYus234; 23 August 2018 at 04:41 PM.
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  #23  
Old 23 August 2018, 04:53 PM
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Michael Cohen? Trump's never heard of the guy, and Trump has a great memory. The BEST memory.

GenYus, that is a very good question. It is especially troubling that McLeod, the one who moved forward with the plot, testified against the others, instead of them against him.
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  #24  
Old 23 August 2018, 09:28 PM
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Default If Trump shot Michael Cohen in broad daylight, here's what Republicans would say

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ight?CMP=fb_gu

A nice satirical piece from The Guardian, which would have seemed entirely over-the-top a few years ago but now seems subtle and understated as far as satire goes.
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  #25  
Old 23 August 2018, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
In a hijack, why were Abbate and Falcone tried for the conspiracy in the case that led to Abbate v. United States? As soon as McLeod moved forward with the conspiracy, they contacted the police about it.
If your question is based on the idea that they had not committed conspiracy before that point, that's inaccurate. The government presented evidence of numerous acts in furtherance of the conspiracy that occurred before the point where they withdrew from it. Some of those acts were by Abbate and Falcone themselves. The conspiracy crime was complete long before McLeod blew something up.

If you're asking why the US chose, as a matter of prosecutorial discretion, to prosecute them when they were seemingly more minor participants, had withdrawn, and had already been convicted for state crimes based on the same acts, I can make a guess. They were union leaders, and it sounds as though there was evidence that they were pretty instrumental in hatching the plan, the targets included equipment used exclusively by the government, they carried out acts, and their state punishment was very minor. It also sounds like, from the 5th Circuit's opinion*, after they withdrew from the conspiracy, they tried to get the telephone company to pay them $6,000 for the details of the plans.

* 247 F2d 410 (1957)
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  #26  
Old 24 August 2018, 02:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ight?CMP=fb_gu

A nice satirical piece from The Guardian, which would have seemed entirely over-the-top a few years ago but now seems subtle and understated as far as satire goes.
Trump has pretty much rendered satire and parody moot. Both forms of comedy are based around the idea of comedic exaggeration to make a point about the subject matter, but there is no exaggeration with Trump. Trump IS an exaggeration and as such, it’s hard to exaggerate him further, since he is at the furthest possible extreme. And after you release your satire or parody, Trump will do something that will render your satire/parody dated and quaint. People will look at your material and wish Trump was that restrained. Trump is the embodiment of all seven deadly sins, all of them stacked on top of each other in a Cheeto-colored flesh wrapper.
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  #27  
Old 24 August 2018, 10:36 AM
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That's mostly satirising people's reactions to him and apologias for him, though, and I thought it got that down pretty well.
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  #28  
Old 24 August 2018, 12:05 PM
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They did, depressingly well. It is like they all have a script they stick to whenever [HUGE OUTRAGE OF THE DAY, OR AT LEAST OF THE HOUR SINCE THERE WILL BE MORE LATER] occurs. I really do worry, since now the idea is that your side can do NO wrong.
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  #29  
Old 24 August 2018, 08:24 PM
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(never mind)
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  #30  
Old 24 August 2018, 08:51 PM
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Despite everything that has happened in the past week, I can't shake the feeling that no matter what eventually happens, none of it is going to matter in the end.

I don't feel this whole ugly scene is going to end well for anybody.

~Psihala
(*Predicted future headline: "Pence Pardons Trump!")
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  #31  
Old 24 August 2018, 09:53 PM
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I’m not sure we’ll get as far as a pardon (because I’m still not confident he’ll be impeached, much less convicted and removed from office).

But otherwise I feel about the same as Psihala. It’s too late for any of this to end well. But the climactic scene of Alien 3 sure was sublime.
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  #32  
Old 24 August 2018, 10:26 PM
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I think it is at least a possibility that, if the Democrats take back the House, Trump will resign in order to avoid future prosecution. If Republicans see that Trump drags them down in the midterms, and Mueller turns in a report that would recommend indictment for anyone other than the President, they may tell him that if he resigns now, Pence can pardon him. If he sticks it out, eventually he will be out of office and he will be indicted pretty much the next day.
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  #33  
Old 25 August 2018, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
That's mostly satirising people's reactions to him and apologias for him, though, and I thought it got that down pretty well.
That is a good point. It may be the only way to do satires of Trump: mock his cronies and worshippers. I highly suspect that even if Trump was to unhinge his jaw and devour a live newborn in front of the baby’s terrified mother, people would still defend him. If the baby’s a PoC, good luck getting them to demonstrate any concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Credence View Post
I think it is at least a possibility that, if the Democrats take back the House, Trump will resign in order to avoid future prosecution.
That would require the Democratic Party to A) Possess a spine and B) Not squander a major opportunity, and the DNC sucks at both.
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  #34  
Old 25 August 2018, 01:55 AM
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Isn't a Pence Presidency pretty scary too though? Is it a matter of the least insane alternative?
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  #35  
Old 25 August 2018, 02:02 AM
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While Trump is in power, we’ll fight him. If Pence comes into power and is every bit as awful, we’ll fight him. It’s as simple as that. Removing Trump wouldn’t solve all problems, but it would be a major improvement, which we can build on.
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  #36  
Old 25 August 2018, 03:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latiam View Post
Isn't a Pence Presidency pretty scary too though? Is it a matter of the least insane alternative?
The other big thing is that while he's terrible, Pence is a predictable kind of terrible. We have a decent idea of what he wants and what he'll do, rather than the unpredictability of Trump.
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  #37  
Old 28 August 2018, 02:37 AM
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Also, as said before, competent evil is less destructive than incompetent. With competence comes a degree of pragmatism and planning. They still have the potential to do great damage and we should fight them every step of the way, but they generally...Trump is a guy whose house is on fire and keeps insisting that gasoline and flame-throwers will solve everything.
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  #38  
Old 29 August 2018, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zylly View Post
The other big thing is that while he's terrible, Pence is a predictable kind of terrible. We have a decent idea of what he wants and what he'll do, rather than the unpredictability of Trump.
But having Apricot Adolph in the white house divides the Republicans.

Michigan-divide and conquer!-Girl
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  #39  
Old 29 August 2018, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiganGirl View Post
But having Apricot Adolph in the white house divides the Republicans.
It may well be driving some of them out of the party altogether.

But the ones in Congress seem to be mostly voting in lockstep; not acting divided at all. And we're losing some of the few who didn't always.

-- I'm not entirely convinced that competent evil is an improvement over incompetent evil, though. I'm afraid that, for instance, Pence might have had the wits to sneak the Muslim immigrant ban in by sufficiently small inches that it would have gone over a lot more successfully.
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  #40  
Old 29 August 2018, 05:34 PM
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I think a Pence presidency with the Democrats taking at least one house of Congress is something we can live with. At the very least, we would avoid the international embarrassment of a President who uses Twitter like a spoiled 14-year-old.

Also, I think Pence would at least pretend to deplore white supremacists, who Trump continues to embolden.
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