Tenn. judge refuses to grant straight couple a divorce because … gay marriage

[Lainie]

Originally Posted by ganzfeld

I have acknowledged from the start that civil proceedings are one option i some states.

In some states? In what states is a civil marriage not an option? I've never heard of such a thing.

[ganzfeld]

Maybe technically speaking all states offer what is called a civil ritual but the quasi-religious nature of the ritual sometimes required, as well as the problems erwins and crocoduckhunter have pointed out, not to mention all of the times in history where religious ideology have determined many aspects (including, well, the most important one - who can get married), make me think a truly civil marriage is still not possible in some places.

[Beachlife!]

Originally Posted by DrRocket

...Why? Separation of church and state.

But it is not a separation of church and state issue so long as the state allows marriage outside of religion which I think all states do.

*ETA: Even though I am technically an ordained member of a religion, I can perform marriages that are entirely civil in nature. Judges, mayors and county commissioners all can perform ceremonies which are entirely civil. While some states might be much more restrictive as to which 'churches' they recognize, I think a judge or other civil officiant is always an option.

[Lainie]

I would also support requiring clergy members who want to perform both civil and religious marriage to meet addtional qualifications beyond being a clergy member (although I think that's another change that's unlikely to ever happen here).

[Beachlife!]

Agreed. I think there should be an online course with certification that must be passed at the very least.

[erwins]

This page shows some of the issues with allowing only clergy and public officials to officiate weddings.

https://theamm.org/how-to-complete-a-marriage-license/

This is from an organization whose entire purpose is to ordain ordinary people to allow them to be officiants. But licenses require people so ordained to call themselves ministers, and call the ceremony a religious one, because only public officials are allowed (in some states) to perform civil marriages. Obviously this page is a summary and won't apply to all states, but it must be enough to make this their general advice.

[Lainie]

Originally Posted by erwins

This page shows some of the issues with allowing only clergy and public officials to officiate weddings.

As I've said, multiple times, I support the idea of having officiants who are neither clergy nor public officials. Has anyone opposed it?