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  #1  
Old 25 January 2007, 11:23 PM
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JoeBentley JoeBentley is offline
 
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Default Boeing 777 Engine Failure at Takeoff?



Quote:
About 10 seconds after liftoff from runway 19R something happens with the left engine. Alot of smoke and fragments of metal and other material falls down on the runway. At first the pilots don't get any indications in the cockpit and plan to go on to Kuala Lumpur. Then we decide to call Arlanda duty officer to make sure that they have noticed the pieces from the engine on the runway. Shortly after that the pilots requests fueldump and return to ARN safely.
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  #2  
Old 25 January 2007, 11:31 PM
marc137
 
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the picture dosent work

it says for information on how to link to our photos, please read http//:www.airliners.net/usephotos/

hope that helps
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  #3  
Old 25 January 2007, 11:43 PM
Alchemy Alchemy is offline
 
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Airliners.net is a tricksy hobbits.

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?id=1134244 should work.
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  #4  
Old 25 January 2007, 11:58 PM
Warlok5
 
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Well, it's a good thing those dratted guvment tests were right... it can fly with one engine, because based on this picture that left one isn't giving much go-power.

Allowing for "translation" I do have to somewhat doubt the text that goes with this... a failure like this that results in "chunkage" would trip all kinds of indicators and alarms in a matter of seconds... the text implies they be-bopped along for a period prior to "noticing" anything wrong... unless prehaps I'm rading too much into it and the poster is implying that the plane is so stable that they didn't notice till they caught the warning lights etc...?

Warlok
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  #5  
Old 26 January 2007, 06:37 AM
Troberg Troberg is offline
 
 
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Yep, it's true, at least if one belives Swedish newspaper Expressen.

http://expressen.se/index.jsp?a=739729 (in Swedish)

It seems like they lost one engine, but dumped fuel, turned around and landed again without further incident.

Great shot, though.
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  #6  
Old 26 January 2007, 12:34 PM
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Hans Off Hans Off is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troberg View Post
Great shot, though.
Indeed, note the pic credit. Only using a Nikon D70 with a 80-200mm F2.8 zoom!
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  #7  
Old 26 January 2007, 01:29 PM
ricco1 ricco1 is offline
 
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Hmmmm....

Something about that photo just doesn't look right to me at first glance, but I can't quite put my finger on what it is.

I've certainly never seen a plane that clean before. Looks more like a model, with the smoke added in later.

But it's on airliners.net, so maybe it's just me.
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  #8  
Old 26 January 2007, 01:43 PM
Jay Tea Jay Tea is offline
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricco1 View Post
Hmmmm....

Something about that photo just doesn't look right to me at first glance, but I can't quite put my finger on what it is.

I've certainly never seen a plane that clean before. Looks more like a model, with the smoke added in later.

But it's on airliners.net, so maybe it's just me.
Too clean? That's gotta make the list of 'most spurious claims of potatoshopping' for sure

Airliners are often spotless, especially new ones
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  #9  
Old 26 January 2007, 01:55 PM
Doug4.7
 
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Glasses

I really want to read the FAA report on this one. I can't see how the pilots wouldn't notice the asymmetric thrust (or the LOSS of 50% of your thrust). Of course, the aircraft is designed to do exactly what they did (lose engine on take-off, still make altitude, dump fuel, go around, land, change pants), so maybe the did notice, but were following procedures.

And to those in the know, how do they "dump fuel"? I always thought they went out to sea (so they would not dump it on someone), but Atlanta is far from any sea.

Last edited by Doug4.7; 26 January 2007 at 01:57 PM. Reason: Add question
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  #10  
Old 26 January 2007, 02:16 PM
Jay Tea Jay Tea is offline
 
 
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Air traffic controllers guide the aircraft to pre-arranged zones for fuel dumping. Kerosene fuel evaporates anyway, with very little coming into contact with the ground. It's still an awful pollutant though, with millions of tonnes being dumped every year around the world.
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  #11  
Old 26 January 2007, 02:18 PM
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Stan The Man Stan The Man is offline
 
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I believe that the fuel will evaporate before it hits the ground. I don't know at what altitude they'd need to be.

ETA: Thanks for the spanking.
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  #12  
Old 26 January 2007, 02:20 PM
Jay Tea Jay Tea is offline
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan The Man View Post
I believe that the fuel will evaporate before it hits the ground. I don't know at what altitude they'd need to be.
About 2000ft
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  #13  
Old 26 January 2007, 02:28 PM
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CSGirl CSGirl is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemy View Post
Airliners.net is a tricksy hobbits.
Okay, I'm not sure why that was so funny to me- but I'm in class, and it almost made me laugh out loud.

Me? On snopes during class? Never!
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  #14  
Old 26 January 2007, 02:31 PM
Doug4.7
 
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Crash

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Tea View Post
Air traffic controllers guide the aircraft to pre-arranged zones for fuel dumping. Kerosene fuel evaporates anyway, with very little coming into contact with the ground. It's still an awful pollutant though, with millions of tonnes being dumped every year around the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan The Man View Post
I believe that the fuel will evaporate before it hits the ground. I don't know at what altitude they'd need to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Tea View Post
About 2000ft
I just don't want to be the farmer in that dump zone....

I can just see it now, at the end of a hard day's work, he sits out on his porch, has a beer and decides to light up a ciggy and then ....
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  #15  
Old 26 January 2007, 02:43 PM
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Gibbie Gibbie is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug4.7 View Post
I really want to read the FAA report on this one. I can't see how the pilots wouldn't notice the asymmetric thrust (or the LOSS of 50% of your thrust). Of course, the aircraft is designed to do exactly what they did (lose engine on take-off, still make altitude, dump fuel, go around, land, change pants), so maybe the did notice, but were following procedures.

And to those in the know, how do they "dump fuel"? I always thought they went out to sea (so they would not dump it on someone), but Atlanta is far from any sea.
I don't think the FAA is going to investigate an Air Malaysia flight taking off from Stockholm and heading to Kuala Lumpur, just a guess. Me thinks you misread Arlanda Doug.

Gibbie
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  #16  
Old 26 January 2007, 02:46 PM
Doug4.7
 
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Throw Tomato

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibbie View Post
I don't think the FAA is going to investigate an Air Malaysia flight taking off from Stockholm and heading to Kuala Lumpur, just a guess. Me thinks you misread Arlanda Doug.
Ooops! Okay, change the farmer's location, and my story stands......only the cussing is in Swedish....

Still, too bad about the FAA not doing the investigation. I would still like to know if they really "did not notice" the engine loss...
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  #17  
Old 26 January 2007, 02:51 PM
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Gibbie Gibbie is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug4.7 View Post
Ooops! Okay, change the farmer's location, and my story stands......only the cussing is in Swedish....

Still, too bad about the FAA not doing the investigation. I would still like to know if they really "did not notice" the engine loss...
Well some governmental body will investigate it I'm sure, you'd just have to go looking for it.

And given Stockholm's location, I don't think you have to worry about the farmer, unless he's a fisherman. I think they probably found water to dump over.

Gibbie
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  #18  
Old 26 January 2007, 03:02 PM
Doug4.7
 
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Throw Tomato

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibbie View Post
And given Stockholm's location, I don't think you have to worry about the farmer, unless he's a fisherman. I think they probably found water to dump over.
Okay, so some Latvian illegal fisherman gets dumped on....
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  #19  
Old 26 January 2007, 07:07 PM
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Tootsie Plunkette Tootsie Plunkette is offline
 
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Police

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlok5 View Post
Allowing for "translation" I do have to somewhat doubt the text that goes with this... a failure like this that results in "chunkage" would trip all kinds of indicators and alarms in a matter of seconds... the text implies they be-bopped along for a period prior to "noticing" anything wrong...

According to The Star (Malaysia),

Quote:
The air traffic controller instructed flight MH09, some 15 minutes after it took off, to return to the airport when ground staff found bits of metal and insulation materials near the runway.
...which implies to me that the pilots were unaware of the problem until the tower contacted them.
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  #20  
Old 27 January 2007, 08:23 AM
Troberg Troberg is offline
 
 
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Quote:
I really want to read the FAA report on this one. I can't see how the pilots wouldn't notice the asymmetric thrust (or the LOSS of 50% of your thrust). Of course, the aircraft is designed to do exactly what they did (lose engine on take-off, still make altitude, dump fuel, go around, land, change pants), so maybe the did notice, but were following procedures.
You will not find a FAA report on it, it happened in Sweden. Luftfartsverket (Swedish aviation authority) and Statens Haverikommision (Swedish national disaster comission, responsible for investigating all kinds of air and see accidents, and lately, also car accidents with lethal outcome).

That said, the pilot must have noticed, and I agree with you that he was probably just following procedure.

Quote:
I just don't want to be the farmer in that dump zone....
I doubt there are many farmers inline with the runways at Arlanda anyway. It's a fairly big airport, the largest in Sweden, with three very active runways and a fourth, smaller runway for small aircraft. If you stand at the runway and look along the incoming or outgoing flight path, you always see 3-5 aircraft neatly lined up. It's also the home base for the SAS airline (which has nothing to do with the British organisation of the same name, the name stands for "Scandinavian Airlines System", or in the Scandinavian languages "Svenskt Allt Sammans").

Quote:
And given Stockholm's location, I don't think you have to worry about the farmer, unless he's a fisherman. I think they probably found water to dump over.
Actually, Arlanda lies inland (perhaps 30-40 km), halfway to Uppsala, and there is plenty of farmland there. I don't have Google Earth on this machine, so I can't give a coordinate, but Arlanda should be searchable. It doesn't matter much though, our farmers are mainly complaining, pretending to grow something and living on EU money...

Quote:
Okay, so some Latvian illegal fisherman gets dumped on....
Not a big risk either. The Baltic sea is pretty close to dead, and will probably be dead in 50 years or so. Changes have been made in an effort to save it, but such systems are slow and industrial and farming waste will still seep out there for a long time. On the other hand, eventually, it will clear up and and new fish and wildlife will come in from the Atlantic and from the many large fresh water rivers feeding the Baltic.
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