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Old 14 May 2010, 12:39 PM
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Default Video claims Russians killed survivors of Polish President's plane crash

Claim of Footage of Russian speakers shooting survivors of plane crash
Quote:

A video of the plane crash which killed the president of Poland apparently shows survivors being shot.

The video, which is being circulated on the internet, has fuelled conspiracy theories about the accident.

It purports to show film of armed Russian-speaking men killing passengers minutes after the crash which killed Lech Kaczynski and dozens of members of the Polish government and military elite.

The grainy, blurred footage - on which sounds like that of gun shots are heard - has been dismissed as a 'malicious hoax' by a Russian aviation expert.
Video link at bottom of article.

noticed a few obvious inconsistencies but interesting to see that some are apparently taking this at face value
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Old 14 May 2010, 12:55 PM
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My question: Ok you want to secretly murder any plane crash survivors. If you accept that happening, it goes to assume that this is obviously going to be a secret - nobody on the hit team is going to be carrying recording material of any grainy quality (if at all) - you don't want evidence going around possibly. So where did the video come from? Surely if the theory is true, then all of the survivors are dead and you would think that a task force killing survivors would see somebody taping the thing. If it was somebody on the inside, then why just this?

Finally, why would you shoot survivors of a plane crash? Any competent professional killer would know that people on planes do not get shot all that often right? Like the Clinton body count tells us, its kinda hard to confuse a plane crash victim from a shooting death.
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Old 14 May 2010, 01:10 PM
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Guybrush Threepwood Guybrush Threepwood is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diddy View Post
My question: Ok you want to secretly murder any plane crash survivors. If you accept that happening, it goes to assume that this is obviously going to be a secret - nobody on the hit team is going to be carrying recording material of any grainy quality (if at all) - you don't want evidence going around possibly. So where did the video come from? Surely if the theory is true, then all of the survivors are dead and you would think that a task force killing survivors would see somebody taping the thing. If it was somebody on the inside, then why just this?

Finally, why would you shoot survivors of a plane crash? Any competent professional killer would know that people on planes do not get shot all that often right? Like the Clinton body count tells us, its kinda hard to confuse a plane crash victim from a shooting death.
While what you say is a reason to look for corroboration before believing the video, it's not proof the video is fake. This video of Tamil Tiger executions is real and the same reasons for doubt would apply.
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Old 14 May 2010, 01:28 PM
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Richard W Richard W is offline
 
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You can't see anything much suspicious at all in the video, as far as I can tell. They put little arrows pointing to blobs representing people occasionally, but there's no way you can see what they're doing, other than by the power of suggestion. None seem to be doing much more than just walking or running around in confusion like the guy filming, to me. Presumably it's not usual for the survivors of a crash like that (if any, which there generally aren't, and weren't "officially" in this case) to be running about, so those people would be rescuers surely?

The suspicious bits are all on the soundtrack, which would be much easier to edit. And since the people aren't speaking English and the sound is rather unclear anyway, I can't tell if the sountrack matches what the captions say. Half of that might be the power of suggestion from muffled speech that was really something else, too.
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Old 14 May 2010, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood View Post
While what you say is a reason to look for corroboration before believing the video, it's not proof the video is fake. This video of Tamil Tiger executions is real and the same reasons for doubt would apply.
That's not the point though - I was sort of pointing out the absurdity of shooting people who survive a plane crash to make it look like they did not survive - when people die in a plane crash, conspiracy or not, gunshot wounds tend not to be the preferred method since they tend to look suspicious. I am doubting this story for that reason - news media would be really suspicious and point out that several victims of said crash had bullet holes. That has not happened and I think it would have happened being that the crash was mainstream news. If this was any conspiracy the Russians would have made the plane dissapear altogether, not engage in a sloppy, suspicious-looking murder.
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Old 14 May 2010, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard W View Post

The suspicious bits are all on the soundtrack, which would be much easier to edit. And since the people aren't speaking English and the sound is rather unclear anyway, I can't tell if the sountrack matches what the captions say. Half of that might be the power of suggestion from muffled speech that was really something else, too.
the laughter at 3:17 sounded alot like a standard laughter audio clip

And how anything beyond the person taking the video can be heard while that whistle was blowing is unlikely

and even if the gunshots were real it is entirely plausible that was police chasing off looters.
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Old 14 May 2010, 02:56 PM
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Wait a minute... I think we've finally found real footage of BIGFOOT!!

Cause that's exactly what that footage looked like, grainy Bigfoot footage. For all you can tell it COULD be Bigfoot & his/her whole family, or the Blair Witch or just about anything or anyone.

What would be the benefit of shooting any survivors of this crash?
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Old 14 May 2010, 02:59 PM
Natalie Natalie is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefighter_raven View Post
and even if the gunshots were real it is entirely plausible that was police chasing off looters.
I'm not familiar with the wildlife of the area where this crash occurred., but in the US scavengers can be a problem with plane crash victims as well. When reconstructions are attempted, they need to know where all the bodies were and what they looked like before a coyote ate part of it, so I believe scavengers would be shot, or possibly scared away with a gunshot.
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Old 15 May 2010, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diddy View Post
My question: Ok you want to secretly murder any plane crash survivors. If you accept that happening, it goes to assume that this is obviously going to be a secret - nobody on the hit team is going to be carrying recording material of any grainy quality (if at all) - you don't want evidence going around possibly. So where did the video come from? Surely if the theory is true, then all of the survivors are dead and you would think that a task force killing survivors would see somebody taping the thing. If it was somebody on the inside, then why just this?

Finally, why would you shoot survivors of a plane crash? Any competent professional killer would know that people on planes do not get shot all that often right? Like the Clinton body count tells us, its kinda hard to confuse a plane crash victim from a shooting death.
I was wonddering the same thing, especially when you consider that neither the person filming or the one seen near the camera at the end of the video really seem to be even trying to hide. Heck, the one near the end is in plain view of the alleged killers, you'd think the soldiers wouldn't let them hang around like that.

Also, I'm no expert on the geopolitics of the area, but would Russia gain anything from this? Enough for them to bother?
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Old 24 May 2010, 10:54 PM
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Can you seriously treat an article if:

1st still. Polish subtitles "Come here, guys!"
English subs "All of them! Kill them!"

I mean, come on!
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