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  #1  
Old 15 January 2018, 03:04 PM
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Airplane Airbus could abandon A380 superjumbo without Emirates deal

Airbus said Monday it will stop making its A380 superjumbo if it can't strike a long-term deal with the airline Emirates for a steady supply of the planes.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ai...s-deal-n837741
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  #2  
Old 15 January 2018, 06:20 PM
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That plane has sold so poorly that Airbus will never make back its development costs--not that it needs to, given the subsidies it's received.

Seaboe
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  #3  
Old 15 January 2018, 11:21 PM
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When Boeing first introduced the 747, many industry experts were asking "How big is too big?"

When I saw my first 380 in person here at MSP, I thought to myself that Airtbus may have discovered the answer to that question.
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  #4  
Old 16 January 2018, 12:47 AM
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Well, sure, but it turns out the 747 was also an answer to that question. Both beautiful planes but they just aren't what's most efficient for the number of people who need to be on one flight at a time.
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  #5  
Old 16 January 2018, 03:00 AM
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Well, the 747 worked back in the regulated days when only Pan Am and TWA plus the foreign carriers were the only airlines allowed to fly transatlantic. With less competition they could consolidate more passengers onto fewer flights on bigger planes like the 747 by funneling them all through a few hubs. Then deregulation came, and a few years later planes like the 767 and A310 made it viable to offer transatlantic flights from smaller cities, and soon United and American and Delta and Piedmont and Eastern and others were offering transatlantic flights from places like Chicago and Atlanta and Charlotte and Miami using these smaller planes, making the 747s harder to fill for the airlines that used them. Now the 787 is doing the same thing for transpacific flights, one of the last places the 747 was really needed, making non-stop flights from San Francisco to many Chinese cities viable as opposed to requiring people to connect in Tokyo.

From a pure cost per seat basis, it's always going to be more efficient to consolidate passengers onto bigger planes as opposed to offering more flights on smaller ones, a fact that Airbus really touted regarding the A380. But in reality market forces make it difficult to actually fill such big planes nowadays.
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  #6  
Old 16 January 2018, 03:02 AM
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The question is "How many engines are too many?" When the 747 debuted 35+ years ago, the answer was "More than four." When the 380 debuted 10 years ago, the answer was often "More than two."
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  #7  
Old 16 January 2018, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
The question is "How many engines are too many?" When the 747 debuted 35+ years ago [...]
Well, plus more than a decade. 49 years next month!
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  #8  
Old 16 January 2018, 01:52 PM
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My math skills be as well as my grammer skills.
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  #9  
Old 16 January 2018, 01:56 PM
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The 747 really came into its own as a cargo carrier, not a people carrier. Even cargo probably isn't going to be enough to keep it going, though.

Seaboe
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  #10  
Old 18 January 2018, 10:45 PM
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Airplane Emirates signs agreement for up to 36 additional A380s

http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press...nal-a380s.html

Quote:
Dubai-based Emirates Airline has signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) to acquire up to 36 additional A380 aircraft.
It looks like Airbus got that deal they wanted with Emirates, and the A380 will be around for a little while longer after all.
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  #11  
Old 29 January 2018, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker View Post
The 747 really came into its own as a cargo carrier, not a people carrier. Even cargo probably isn't going to be enough to keep it going, though.

Seaboe
Carrying cargo is the main reason the 747 looks like it does. When first designed, they raised the cockpit above the main tube of the fuselage to facilitate a nose that raises up and allows unfettered access to the entire length of the tube. They added the extra seats behind the cockpit because the shape created a better airflow than a short "bump" with just the cockpit would have allowed.

Boeing did investigate a redesign that would have added a second deck the entire length of the aircraft but came to the (correct) conclusion it would never pay off.

It will be sad to see it disappear from the skies, but it was around a lot longer than many aircraft that came after it. It had a great run.
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  #12  
Old 29 January 2018, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrRocket View Post
Carrying cargo is the main reason the 747 looks like it does.
And supposedly the 747 was designed for cargo because in the late 1960s everyone thought supersonic transport was the future, and that "slow" planes like the 747 would be relegate to hauling cargo. Ironically after Concorde was retired the 747 became the fastest airliner in regular service.

Quote:
They added the extra seats behind the cockpit because the shape created a better airflow than a short "bump" with just the cockpit would have allowed.
IIRC, the upper deck on the very early 747s wasn't certified for passenger seating, I think due to a lack of emergency exits/escape slides. Hence that area getting used for things like first class lounges and such in those days. Later on Boeing added the requite emergency exits and extra windows to allow for regular seats to be installed up there.

Going down an emergency slide from the upper deck of a 747 or an A380 looks scary.
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  #13  
Old 13 February 2019, 12:04 AM
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Airplane Airbus to give update on A380 shutdown plans

Quote:
Airbus is nearing a decision to axe production of the world’s largest airliner and may give an update with full-year earnings on Feb. 14, industry sources and analysts said.

The fate of the A380 superjumbo has been in doubt since a vital order from Emirates foundered over inconclusive engine talks, forcing Airbus and the airline to weigh an alternative plan that would trigger a premature halt to A380 production.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...-idUSKCN1Q1259

Although it didn't get discussed in this thread, that Emirates order I mentioned in post #10 evidently fell apart over issues with the Rolls-Royce engines.
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  #14  
Old 14 February 2019, 04:07 PM
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And it's official:

Quote:
Airbus will stop making the A380, pulling the plug on its iconic superjumbo jet that once promised to revolutionize commercial air travel but failed to deliver on outsized expectations.The European plane maker said Thursday that it will stop delivering A380s in 2021 after its key customer, Dubai-based airline Emirates, slashed its orders for the world's largest airliner.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/14/busin...tes/index.html
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  #15  
Old 14 February 2019, 04:15 PM
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I guess that is good news for Boeing.
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  #16  
Old 14 February 2019, 04:25 PM
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It is just as well. With Brexit looming, they wouldn't have had any wings anyway.
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  #17  
Old 14 February 2019, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfresh View Post
I guess that is good news for Boeing.
I don't know; it's not as if the 747-8, the closest thing Boeing has as a direct competitor to the A380, has sold any better. In fact quite the opposite.

I guess you could argue that without the A380 as an option airlines might be more likely to order Boeing products like the 777, but they were already doing that anyway, as A380 hasn't been selling well for a long time.
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  #18  
Old 14 February 2019, 05:09 PM
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As I understand it, the plane that turned out to be competing with the A380 wasn't the 747, it was the 787.

Seaboe
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  #19  
Old 14 February 2019, 05:50 PM
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But in that case Airbus has the A330-NEO and A350 which compete with the 787 and 777.
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  #20  
Old 14 February 2019, 06:21 PM
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The article talks about how the 380's ultra-luxury selling points fell by the wayside giving way to passenger densification. With plane-sharing programs and private jets with the legs to fly trans-Pacific flights, I wonder if there is much of a high-end luxury market for commercial jets. I don't know about others, but my biggest luxury in flying would be getting away from commercial schedules and fellow passengers.

Last edited by GenYus234; 14 February 2019 at 06:23 PM. Reason: added "high-end"
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