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  #141  
Old 04 September 2018, 05:45 AM
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Blatherskite, you're right, of course. Not to mention that some cultures never had the idea in the first place.

I didn't mean to imply that Jefferson came up with 'all men are created equal' out of nowhere; but I agree that my post might easily have been read that way. I was trying to think of a way to word what I was trying to say, and didn't make that good a job of it.
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  #142  
Old 18 October 2018, 12:26 AM
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I saw a cartoon on facebook and it's been bugging me since this morning. It was making fun of how 'smug' a liberal/hippyish/artsy/more-lesbian-than-the general-population town nearish to my home is. The lesbian claim isn't a stereotype, incidentally, but a statistical fact.

There was some vague warning about 'smugness' while the cartoon depicted an overweight butch woman in a rainbow scarf and bikini with, for some reason, a prosthetic leg, looking belligerent in the foreground. To the side was what looked like a child holding a banner saying 'Hemp clothing for all'. There was a figure holding a sign saying 'Equal rights for non-binary unicorns' and one wearing a tie-dye hoodie holding a sign saying simply 'free hugs'.

I mean... what? Why is any of this meant to be bad? Why is any of this meant to be smug? Does smug mean 'more liberal than I like'? Does it mean 'less ashamed than I would like'? Was the premise of the whole cartoon simply 'Hurr duur liberals and fat disabled lesbians hurr'?
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  #143  
Old 18 October 2018, 12:34 AM
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Probably. That seems about the general intellectual level of the target audience.
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  #144  
Old 18 October 2018, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blatherskite View Post
Why is any of this meant to be bad?
Kind of reminds me of that cartoon showing a woman wearing a miniskirt and multicolor dyed hair on the subway sitting next to a woman wearing a chador; with a caption 'this is the world that liberals want'.

Well, yes. A world in which women can go out in public wearing what we want to wear. A world in which people of differing religious views can all ride on the same subway without trying to kill each other. Why is that bad?

-- and, Blatherskite, it sounds to me like it's whoever made that Facebook post who is smug.
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  #145  
Old 18 October 2018, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
Kind of reminds me of that cartoon showing a woman wearing a miniskirt and dyed hair on the subway sitting next to a woman wearing a chador; with a caption 'this is the world that liberals want'.
I loved the retaliation to that damp flop of a meme!

(ETA: I don't know what version you saw, but what I saw wasn't a cartoon but a photograph of a drag queen sitting next to a woman in a burkha).
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  #146  
Old 18 October 2018, 02:18 AM
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The future that Liberals want also includes a robust public transportation system, in addition to everyone being allowed to express themselves however they see fit, so long as it doesn't interfere with the rights and lives of others.
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  #147  
Old 18 October 2018, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blatherskite View Post
I don't know what version you saw, but what I saw wasn't a cartoon but a photograph of a drag queen sitting next to a woman in a burkha.
My memory of exactly what the meme looked like is blurry. Maybe it was a photo.

And I wouldn't put it past myself to not recognize a drag queen as a drag queen, at least in some contexts; though it is possible I saw a different version.

But yes, I think a lot of people had my overall reaction.
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  #148  
Old 18 October 2018, 03:38 PM
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It's kind of hard to miss a drag queen, they are pretty much known for their "can't miss me" looks.
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  #149  
Old 18 October 2018, 04:24 PM
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As I remember the photo, GenYus, the person did indeed have "can't miss me looks"; but so do some women who aren't drag queens.
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  #150  
Old 18 October 2018, 10:30 PM
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Picture of duck:

"1/1024th Bald Eagle."
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  #151  
Old 18 October 2018, 10:37 PM
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Is that supposed to be some sort of anti-evolution meme?

Or an extremely roundabout way of mocking Elizabeth Warren?
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  #152  
Old 18 October 2018, 10:51 PM
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My guess is the second.
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  #153  
Old 18 October 2018, 11:17 PM
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Definitely a jab at Warren. 1/1024 is the lower end of what portion of her lineage could be Native American.

As an aside, Warren is calling for Donald Trump should make good on his promise to pay $1 million to a charity of Warren's choice based on those test results. I have two issues with that.
1) His claim was to pay that money if a DNA test "shows you’re an Indian." I know about the one drop rule and all for African Americans, but I don't call 1/64th (at best) Native American heritage to qualify someone as being Native American full-stop.
2) AIUI, the test doesn't show that she has Native American but instead shows that several of the DNA markers she has are also shared by people who are (or say) they are Native American. IMS, that could be caused by many of the Native Americans who comprise the database having a common European ancestor with Warren. ETA: The study done seems to be more thorough than a mail-in kit, but given all the issues of supposedly impeccable crime lab DNA analysis, I'm not sure any test can be assured to be extremely accurate.

Last edited by GenYus234; 18 October 2018 at 11:23 PM.
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  #154  
Old 18 October 2018, 11:34 PM
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I share your skepticism as expressed in your second point, and I also agree with the annoyed members of the Cherokee tribe that they alone determine membership. But did Warren ever claim to have more Native ancestry than the test indicates? I thought she said she had a Cherokee ancestor, and the throwdown with Trump actually involved him challenging her to take a DNA test. I think based on his offer, he owes $1m to the charity of her choice.
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  #155  
Old 18 October 2018, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esprise Me View Post
I think based on his offer, he owes $1m to the charity of her choice.
I doubt Trump will actually make good on his promise, but I would love to see Warren pick something like Planned Parenthood as the recipient of the donation if he did.
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  #156  
Old 19 October 2018, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esprise Me View Post
But did Warren ever claim to have more Native ancestry than the test indicates?
According to the Boston Globe, she claimed the Association of American Law Schools listed her as a member of a minority. According to that society, those listings are based on what data is submitted to them so either Warren or whoever submitted her data identified her as such. Obviously we don't know what percentage she considers enough to label oneself as a minority, but I would expect it to be higher than 1/64th. The family accounts by Warren sounds like it would have been at best her grandfather who was Native-American.

ETA: Warren has already picked the National Indigenous Women's Resource Center to not get Trump's donation.
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  #157  
Old 19 October 2018, 02:25 AM
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Of course, she actually got into all the places where she marked down her ethnicity as Native American based on personal merit, not, as Republicans are trying to insinuate, abusing Affirmative Action.
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  #158  
Old 19 October 2018, 03:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
My memory of exactly what the meme looked like is blurry. Maybe it was a photo.

And I wouldn't put it past myself to not recognize a drag queen as a drag queen, at least in some contexts; though it is possible I saw a different version.

But yes, I think a lot of people had my overall reaction.
Really the meme could be more accurately labeled as “This is the future the Conservatives want to take away from us.” Though really, the photo is a reflection of what we have now, with drag queens and women who wear chadors being able to live their lives in peace. Conservatives want to take it all away. So maybe the label should be “This is what Conservatives want to destroy.”
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  #159  
Old 19 October 2018, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esprise Me View Post
I share your skepticism as expressed in your second point, and I also agree with the annoyed members of the Cherokee tribe that they alone determine membership.
From what I read, she never claimed being a member of the Cherokee tribe (nation? I don't know what's correct), but only that she has Cherokee ancestors. After the tribe critiziesed her, she immidiatly repeated that and agreed that only the tribe determines membership.
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  #160  
Old 19 October 2018, 02:49 PM
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She's been claiming a specific named great-great-great- grandmother was either Native American, or had enough Native American genetics to be generally identified as such at the time. Which is a) perfectly plausible b) consistent with the DNA results and c) certainly not sufficient to make Warren herself Native American; though I don't think she's ever said that she is -- I think even on the old college form she only said that she had such ancestry.

On the one hand, Trump is entirely and absolutely out of line about this. Pocahantas was a real person, she was nothing like the version I was taught about in school, and much of her life wasn't pretty. Neither is what Trump is trying to do with her name.

On the other hand, Warren has been apparently entirely clueless about how all of this is coming across from the point of view of many of the Cherokee and of many other Native Americans. I might be inclined to cut her slack over the college stuff -- but the last time this came up in the political context, if not sooner, she should have learned about what the complaints were, and should know better by now. She's acting as if this were all an argument between her and Trump, and had nothing to do with the people both of them are arguing about.

I don't think either of them is coming across well on this issue, at all.
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