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Old 11 July 2017, 03:51 AM
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Blow Your Top Trump Jr. Was Told in Email of Russian Effort to Aid Campaign

Quote:
Originally Posted by The New York Times
Before arranging a meeting with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer he believed would offer him compromising information about Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump Jr. was informed in an email that the material was part of a Russian government effort to aid his father’s candidacy, according to three people with knowledge of the email.
Article here.

Wow. I have a hard time believing that Papa Trump wouldn't have known about this (assuming it is true, but the Times has been good on this so far).

Last edited by Darth Credence; 11 July 2017 at 03:57 AM.
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Old 11 July 2017, 02:15 PM
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I am reading the Maclean's article on this and came across this snippet that sums up my feelings quite succinctly:

Quote:
For all those who did not vote for him, or who stare in wonder from overseas, he is a baffling punchline.
I would have thought by now that even dyed in the wool Republicans would have bailed on the Donald. This is growing into more and more of a farce and is turning the US and its system of social and political governance into more and more of a side show.
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Old 11 July 2017, 02:41 PM
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One funny thing about this is that, in the words of the Guardian, "The email said the Russian had interesting information on Hillary Clinton that could help Trump, and that the material was part of a Russian government effort to aid his candidacy." And according to other stories, this "damaging" information was that "individuals connected to Russia were funding the Democratic National Committee [DNC] and supporting Ms Clinton."

In other words, the supposed damaging information about Clinton that Donald Trump Jr had been hoping to get hold of, from Russia, in order to help Trump's campaign was an allegation that the Russians were supporting Clinton's campaign! You'd have thought he might have realised that could be damaging to him...
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Old 11 July 2017, 03:10 PM
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One of the FB comments I read was hilarious in the way the guy bent over backwards to dismiss this as a non-issue. Even went so far as to say that there was nothing wrong with trying to "get the dirt" on your political opponent no matter where you had to go to get it and that if Clinton had done this no one would be saying a word (really? no one? ) Sigh. I never thought I'd miss the days of the Cold War when Republicans thought Russia was the enemy!
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Old 11 July 2017, 03:20 PM
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Republicans are at war with Democrats. Republicans have always been at war with Democrats.
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Old 11 July 2017, 04:16 PM
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There were times when Republicans and Democrats could actually agree on issues. That's no longer the case, now Republicans are determined to destroy everything Democrats try to do, regardless of cost.
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Old 11 July 2017, 04:30 PM
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That's the downside to demonizing your opponents. It starts to build like a landslide and you have to fight to stay ahead of it or risk being buried by it.
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Old 11 July 2017, 06:17 PM
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And, Jr. just released the e-mail chain about it on Twitter, including the bit how he forwarded it to Manafort and Kushner.

Almost immediately after, the Times published it as well:
Quote:
Originally Posted by trusted intermediary
“This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald Trump, Jr.
“If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer.”
We now have an explanation for the "No puppet - you're the puppet" line. They are saying that the "info" would be about how Clinton was colluding with the Russians. Trump had to know about this at the time of the debate, and thought that he was actually saying something that was true.
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Old 11 July 2017, 06:26 PM
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Or he was reacting like a 5YO, as he is wont to do.
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Old 11 July 2017, 07:40 PM
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And the Times still isn't done reporting on this:

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  #11  
Old 11 July 2017, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UEL View Post
I would have thought by now that even dyed in the wool Republicans would have bailed on the Donald. This is growing into more and more of a farce and is turning the US and its system of social and political governance into more and more of a side show.
I suspect that many if not most Republicans in Congress and elsewhere have privately bailed on Trump (to the degree that they really supported him in the first place), but they are still hoping to get his signature on any bills they can pass to advance their agenda. (I am somewhat amazed at how little they've managed to do along those lines so far, but there's stuff coming.) In fact, it could be useful for them if he signs some bills that are likely to be unpopular, defund needed services, or increase the deficit, because it gives them a nice scapegoat when the eventual reckoning comes: "Oh, that was all Trump, he wasn't a real Republican." They also still have to fear his base, which may be a minority even of Republican voters, but pissing them off could bring some nasty primary challenges.

My (somewhat cynical) prediction is that there will be a significant pivot on the part of the GOP next summer, after they've secured their re-nominations, in an attempt to win over moderate Republicans and independents and avoid losing the House and Senate in the 2018 mid-terms. Once those are past, they can start looking for someone to oppose him in the primaries in 2020 -- or, if they have good prospects for getting him out of office, perhaps to start building support for Pence.
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Old 11 July 2017, 11:19 PM
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A real problem here is that Trump Jr. can be indicted on federal charges and there isn't any clear way he can both (a) stay out of prison and (b) avoid testifying against others. I don't think he'd qualify for executive privilege protection. If he was pardoned, it seems like he could be held in contempt of court if he then tried to invoke the 5th Amendment. If he invoked the Fifth Amendment without a pardon, we'd have to see if Trump Jr. has enough fortitude to withstand a trial and possible criminal conviction knowing that his loving father wouldn't pardon him.
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Old 11 July 2017, 11:23 PM
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The financial group where I have some of my investments has issued a public notice. It is warning of potential instability in the markets upcoming. Here are a few snippets from the notice:

"It is highly unlikely that President Trump would be impeached..."

"The risk of impeachment proceedings is now higher than before."

"...[it would be] politically costly to the [GOP's] electoral prospects to pursue impeachment proceedings against a president of their own party"

It goes on to list some of the market impacts of potential fallout of the Russian scandal.

Personally, if a major financial institution is issuing releases saying "nothing is likely to happen, but there is more than a small chance of it happening...but it is not likely to happen because it may cause trouble.... but if it does happen, here is what you can expect to happen to your investments." I don't find that very reassuring.
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Old 12 July 2017, 12:59 AM
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Interesting. I will keep my eyes open for any similar emails (I work for a financial services company).
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  #15  
Old 12 July 2017, 02:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
There were times when Republicans and Democrats could actually agree on issues. That's no longer the case, now Republicans are determined to destroy everything Democrats try to do, regardless of cost.
Like I said, at some point the GOP ceased to be a political party and turned into a doomsday cult, minus the matching sneakers. They will happily burn everything down whether they do or don't win. They have proven that they only care about themselves and maybe people related to them via blood or marriage, so they have no problem destroying everything, even if it enriches them at the expense of everyone else. The simplest and best answer is They Don't Care. They also have no problem burning everything down because if they can't have it, no one can.

Despite all this, for some reason the Democratic Party continues to persist in acting like they're dealing with rational humans here. Bipartisanship and Reaching Across the Aisles are fine and noble ideals, but they only work when both sides are made of reasonable adults who, despite differing views, genuinely respect each other and want to work together to get stuff done. Said ideals do not work if one side is made up of reasonable adults, while the other is made up of demon toddler spite children who have decided to oppose anything you do, regardless of its merits.
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Old 12 July 2017, 03:01 PM
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Twitter was afire about this yesterday, comparing Don Jr with Fredo Corleone and the Bluths.

My favourite one was from a Fredo Corleone account that showed an image of a despondent Fredo with the caption "TFW you're the most talked about Corleone, but people are comparing you to Don Jr."

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Old 12 July 2017, 03:20 PM
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The comparison to Fredo may not be accurate since Fredo's fatal mistake was taking sides against the family, not any external actions.
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  #18  
Old 12 July 2017, 03:38 PM
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Well, Fredo was too stupid to realize the consequences of what he was doing. . .
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Old 12 July 2017, 09:40 PM
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Maybe this should go in stupid questions but Trump Jr did this to get 'damaging information" on Clinton. Did he actually get any "dirt"?
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  #20  
Old 12 July 2017, 09:59 PM
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Short answer: we don't know yet. He claims he didn't, but we know how much a Trump's word is worth.
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