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Old 11 February 2019, 09:12 PM
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Icon05 The difference between a snafu, a NFBSKshow, and a clusterNFBSK

Cluster****s hold a special place in public life, one distinct from the complications, crises, and catastrophes that mar our personal and professional existences.

https://qz.com/work/1225213/the-diff...JEeJLWPCp6zzcQ
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  #2  
Old 12 February 2019, 04:20 PM
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It's funny. though experience, I've built up internal definitions close to the ones presented here.

Now I am chuffed to see that there are now "official" definitions.

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  #3  
Old 12 February 2019, 05:59 PM
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Hmmm. They define "FUBAR" as "fouled up beyond all repair"; I've always thought it was "fouled up beyond all recognition". Eh, I like mine better.
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Old 12 February 2019, 07:14 PM
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I've seen it used both ways before.
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Old 12 February 2019, 07:42 PM
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Fouled? That's not how I learned it.
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Old 12 February 2019, 09:47 PM
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Flubbed up?

I learned it as 'beyond all recognition" myself.
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Old 13 February 2019, 01:40 AM
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Oh, I love debates like these. It’s pedantic, but I love parsing out these kind of phenomena.

My personal definition of what makes something a ClusterNFBSK as opposed to just a screwup, is that in a clusterNFBSK, everything that could go wrong, did. Nothing worked and everyone involved is tainted to some degree as a result of whatever happened.

Though I also feel an important distinction between a clusterNFBSK and a shitshow, is madcap ambition. The vision behind a shitshow is small: person X wanted to make some quick money/cash in on a trend, but failed.

Whereas a clusterNFBSK is all about insane ambition. Person X wanted to accomplish a great heroic feat, create a masterpiece that would forever be listed among the greats, and practically become interwoven into our culture. But their ambition and ego far outstripped their talent, leading them to shut out much-needed voices of reason, leading to a product where like I said, nothing works.

Shitshows are as common as racists at a Trump rally. Whereas clusterNFBSKs can either occur as often a once in a while or show up roughly as often as Halley’s Comet. Shitshows are common; clusterNFBSKs are rare.

Nathan Rabin said something similar in his My World/Year of Flops columns. He has three categories he uses to classify his subjects: Secret Success (the meaning of the term should be honest), Failure, and Fiasco. A Failure is exactly what it says on the surface; they tried but didn’t succeed. A Fiasco, on the other hand, is the product of mad ambition, a failure of such mythic proportions that will be spoken of in hushed tones for decades to come.

To put it in terms of movies, a Shitshow would be any of Michael Bay’s assorted Transformers’ sequels: interchangeable and forgettable. Now, Michael Cimino’s Heaven’s Gate, that’s a clusterNFBSK.
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Old 13 February 2019, 03:34 AM
Jusenkyo no Pikachu Jusenkyo no Pikachu is offline
 
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So I gather that a ClusterNFBSK is a Rube Goldberg Shitshow?
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Old 13 February 2019, 01:45 PM
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So there needs to be hubris for something to be a clusterNFBSK? Whereas a shitshow only needs simple incompetence?

I like the distinct that SNAFU means things are functional while FUBAR means it's a wreck.

ETA: Though now that I think about it, you can get a clusterNFBSK when a bunch of competing plans crash together and everything blows up in chaos.

Last edited by NobleHunter; 13 February 2019 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 13 February 2019, 02:13 PM
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I like the idea that clusterNSFBSK has an element of impatience and ambition. When I was working, my supervisor would never tell the boss "no" which led to a couple of clusters...
I never thought about SNAFU and FUBAR being different, but it does make sense. BTW, my take on the latter is also Beyond All Recognition, although the other works.

Ali
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Old 14 February 2019, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Winston O'Boogie View Post
Hmmm. They define "FUBAR" as "fouled up beyond all repair"; I've always thought it was "fouled up beyond all recognition". Eh, I like mine better.
I originally heard it in Tango & Cash and they have it as recognition
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Old 14 February 2019, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Infree View Post
I like the idea that clusterNSFBSK has an element of impatience and ambition. When I was working, my supervisor would never tell the boss "no" which led to a couple of clusters...
That leads nicely into my categorization. Something isn't a clusterNFBSK unless it is being driven by those higher-up. Especially if those following the orders know it is going to be a clusterNFBSK but can't convince the higher ups of that.
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Old 14 February 2019, 04:45 PM
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Is my memory deceiving me, or was this thread originally posted in NFBSK Gone Wild? Did it get moved here? Do we still have moderators?
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  #14  
Old 19 February 2019, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NobleHunter View Post
So there needs to be hubris for something to be a clusterNFBSK? Whereas a shitshow only needs simple incompetence?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
That leads nicely into my categorization. Something isn't a clusterNFBSK unless it is being driven by those higher-up. Especially if those following the orders know it is going to be a clusterNFBSK but can't convince the higher ups of that.
That’s pretty much how I define clusterNFBSKs. Again, anyone can fail and produce a shitshow, but a true clusterNFBSK is rarely seen. Though I wonder whether the Russia Investigation qualifies as a ClusterNBSK or a shitshow? The scale of it makes me want to call it a clusterNFBSK, but at the same time, there is a reason John Oliver calls the whole scandal “Stupid Watergate” and he’s right: all the seriousness and troubling implications of Watergate, only everyone involved, is really, really stupid. I don’t know if ego or hubris is really involved in the whole mess. It, like everything else related to Trump, seems the product of ignorance and concentrated amounts of apathy. The plain and simple truth regarding Trump can be summed up as “Don’t know; don’t care.”

Seriously, Machiavelli spins in his grave whenever the adjective “Machiavellian” is attached to anything related to the Trump administration, and he does a lot of grave-spinning as is.

Though when it comes to the difference between a SNAFU and a FUBAR, with its military origins in mind, a snafu seems to describe the general conditions of war. No matter how much planning the generals or whoever does, war is inherently unpredictable and messy. The planners don’t know everything about a situation—indeed, they can’t possibly know everything, unless they’re God—so they take what they do know and fill in the gaps with their best guesswork.

There will always be something that will go wrong and it will all be a huge mess, but if you keep it together and roll with the punches, you can salvage a snafu.

Whereas with a FUBAR, there is no salvaging the situation. With a FUBAR, your best option is to forget honor and dignity; just GTFO! Honor and dignity won’t help you much if you stay! A snafu can be salvaged; in a FUBAR, the best you can hope for, is to survive.

Though of the terms discussed in this thread, I’m trying to figure out what terms apply to two different circumstances. In one situation, you were thrown into a bad situation through no real fault of your own, and all you could do was scramble to survive. In this situation, while you do screwup during all this, said screwups are somewhat understandable and can be chalked up to chaos you were operating under.

Whereas with the other situation, while you were thrown into a bad situation through no real fault of your own, you made it so much worse, basically doing the equivalent of pouring gasoline on a raging house fire.
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Old 19 February 2019, 04:34 AM
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The first sounds like a clusterNFBSK (because your mistakes are due to TPTB throwing you into a situation you weren't prepared or qualified for).

The second sounds like a NFBSKshow.

ETA: In the first, you are being NFBSKed from all angles from multiple sources: the situation, those who put you in the situation, etc. Hence the cluster part. In the second, you are a part of a showcase of NFBSK. Essentially, one of many actors all cooperating to create a NFBSK play that is greater NFBSK than the sum of its NFBSK parts.
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  #16  
Old 19 February 2019, 11:16 AM
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What, no omnishambles?
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