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  #21  
Old 04 October 2018, 04:21 PM
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Keeper of the Mad Bunnies Keeper of the Mad Bunnies is offline
 
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Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
It (It's also in a way kind of odd the place has been so successful despite being only a few miles from Disneyland. These days it's probably an asset -- an additional attraction to bring people into the area in the first place -- but in the sixties, you might think the Disney park would have sucked all the business away. Somehow though they managed to come through.)
But the advantage that they had in the 1960s was the free admission. You went to Disneyland for the roller coasters and Disney experience. You went to Knotts for the chicken dinner/jam and the 'Western' experience.

My Mom's explanation was that Knotts starting charging admission when it became a hang-out for the local Hell's Angels chapter. I have no idea of the veracity of that tale.

(Another old Garden Grove person - remember Marineland?)
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  #22  
Old 04 October 2018, 04:32 PM
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While the admission is no longer free, Knott's Berry Farm is still considerably less than Disneyland. It is a challenge to do an apples to apples comparison as both parks have a wide range of prices depending on day -- single or multiple, extra's, number of guests, gate or advanced, and a number of other possible options and combinations. But a quick visual survey seems to indicate that Knott's Berry Farm is somewhere between 25% and 50% less expensive than Disney.

Now the question of how comparable the experiences are and the relative value of those ticket prices is another whole discussion and assuredly varies by person.
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  #23  
Old 04 October 2018, 06:01 PM
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But the advantage that they had in the 1960s was the free admission. You went to Disneyland for the roller coasters and Disney experience. You went to Knotts for the chicken dinner/jam and the 'Western' experience.
Actually in those days Disney's only "roller coaster" was the Matterhorn. (But Knott's didn't have any then, either.) Nowadays, Knott's is much more the place for coasters and thrill rides.

Another factor that came along, somewhat later, was the highly successful "Knott's Scary Farm" promotion in the fall, which became a big southern California attraction, many years before Disneyland started taking any particular notice of Halloween.

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My Mom's explanation was that Knotts starting charging admission when it became a hang-out for the local Hell's Angels chapter. I have no idea of the veracity of that tale.
I remember hearing that it was "the hippies" -- not just hanging around the place, but actually camping there overnight, since at the time it didn't have a fence. No idea if there's anything to that, either.

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(Another old Garden Grove person - remember Marineland?)
I'm still bitter about how Marineland got shut down after being purchased by Harcourt Brace Javanovich, which also owned Sea World at the time. They swore when they bought it that they had no intention of shutting it down -- then shut it down anyway, transferring some of the animals to Sea World (and losing at least one orca in the process, IIRC). It would probably have had to go eventually, anyway -- by current standards, the tanks they had were nowhere near large enough for the animals, and I doubt they'd have had an easy time reconstructing. But they were ahead of Sea World, I think, in the animal rescue business, and that was also lost.

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Originally Posted by iskinner View Post
While the admission is no longer free, Knott's Berry Farm is still considerably less than Disneyland. It is a challenge to do an apples to apples comparison as both parks have a wide range of prices depending on day -- single or multiple, extra's, number of guests, gate or advanced, and a number of other possible options and combinations. But a quick visual survey seems to indicate that Knott's Berry Farm is somewhere between 25% and 50% less expensive than Disney.
Knott's also has many more substantial discounts available through various outlets. Disney does very little of that, as they really have no incentive to.
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  #24  
Old 04 October 2018, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
Actually in those days Disney's only "roller coaster" was the Matterhorn. (But Knott's didn't have any then, either.) Nowadays, Knott's is much more the place for coasters and thrill rides.
I'm interested it hear what you think are roller coaster rides, since IMO, almost all of Disneyland's rides are built on the roller coaster principle.

Seaboe
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  #25  
Old 04 October 2018, 08:18 PM
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I'm interested it hear what you think are roller coaster rides, since IMO, almost all of Disneyland's rides are built on the roller coaster principle.

Seaboe
Disneyland has relatively few coasters: Space Mountain, Splash Mountain (a flume ride), Big Thunder Mountain Railway and the Matterhorn. California Adventure has Goofy's Sky School, what was California Scream in and the Grizzly Run flume ride.

That's not a lot.
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  #26  
Old 04 October 2018, 09:52 PM
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Disney has a lot more "show" rides, like "It's A Small World" or "Haunted Mansion" than other theme parks. You go there for the name and for the atmosphere; you don't go there for the thrill rides.

We have season passes to our local Six Flags park, which has very little in the line of "show". My wife likes to go there with the kids and the extended family; while the kids go on a ride, she'll find a bench and read. Well, guess you can't do that at Disney any more.
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  #27  
Old 04 October 2018, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
I know for many of us the switch from the days when they had ticket books for rides to a single price was a good thing...
Thing I learned today: There was a time when you had to buy books of tickets for the rides at Disneyland. I thought I had read somewhere once that one of Disney's big innovations when they opened the park was just charging for general admission rather than requiring guests to buy tickets for each ride. From what I understand the way amusement parks typically worked at the time (like Knott's Berry Farm) was to have no charge for admission but to require payment or tickets for each ride (like how the Santa Cruz Boardwalk still works today). But I must have misremembered when Disney started doing that, and I'm guessing it was still considered innovative whenever they made the switch.
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  #28  
Old 04 October 2018, 10:13 PM
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Thing I learned today: There was a time when you had to buy books of tickets for the rides at Disneyland. I thought I had read somewhere once that one of Disney's big innovations when they opened the park was just charging for general admission rather than requiring guests to buy tickets for each ride.
Now I'm curious to know: Had you ever heard the expression "E-Ticket" or "E-Ticket ride"? It's a common expression in southern California, though it's probably fading as people who remember those days grow fewer. (But it is definitely sometimes used by people who weren't born when they were still in use.)

It comes from the old Disneyland ticket books. The tickets were classed by letter, A through E, and the more elaborate/popular rides were further along the alphabet. So A tickets were things like the Main Street vehicles or the Sleeping Beauty walkthrough, whereas something like Space Mountain was an E-Ticket.

Most people would buy a ticket book for admission; it would contain usually 10-15 tickets of varying denominations, and also included admission to the park, and sometimes a special coupon for "Great Moments With Mr. Lincoln." The tickets were good indefinitely, so if you didn't use all of yours on a particular visit, you could save them for the next. Like most families, we usually had a bundle of A and B tickets with a few stray C's and D's in a drawer for our next trip. You could also buy extra tickets inside the park if you ran short.

There were also "Magic Key" tickets which were good for any ride; you could get these if you were a member of the Magic Kingdom club, something you could usually join through your employer. Naturally the inclination was to use these for D and E ticket attractions whenever possible; it would feel like a waste to use on on an A-ticket ride.

They switched to the Passport in 1982, where you could ride everything for one price. For a while, at least, you could bring your old ride tickets and each was good for some amount off your passport price -- I don't know if you still can, but I imagine it would be pretty rare; they're probably more valuable as collectibles at this point.

Here's a page about them: https://d23.com/e-ticket-memories-fi...-ticket-books/
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  #29  
Old 04 October 2018, 10:21 PM
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Disneyland has relatively few coasters: Space Mountain, Splash Mountain (a flume ride), Big Thunder Mountain Railway and the Matterhorn. California Adventure has Goofy's Sky School, what was California Scream in and the Grizzly Run flume ride.

That's not a lot.
And it was just the Matterhorn until Space Mountain opened in 1977 (iirc).
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  #30  
Old 04 October 2018, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Keeper of the Mad Bunnies View Post
(Another old Garden Grove person - remember Marineland?)
There's still a Marineland in Ontario. Though I think it's somewhat controversial these days.

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  #31  
Old 04 October 2018, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
Now I'm curious to know: Had you ever heard the expression "E-Ticket" or "E-Ticket ride"?
I haven't ever heard it in the context you describe, no. To me "E-ticket" means "electronic ticket", and I first heard it in the early 2000s when airlines started issuing tickets electronically rather than in physical paper form. But that's completely different from how you're using it.
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  #32  
Old 05 October 2018, 12:47 AM
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I only learned about Disneyland E-tickets when I happened to be listening to Weird Al's "Jurassic Park" recently for the first time in years, and there's a line about "this sure ain't no E-ticket..." I thought, huh? Electronic tickets didn't exist in the early 90's when he recorded that song. So I had to look up the lyric to figure out what he was talking about. And after reading about it, the phrase seemed vaguely familiar; I probably heard the term when I was a kid but hadn't thought about it in that context for decades.
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  #33  
Old 05 October 2018, 12:58 AM
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They were used at Disneyworld too. We used tickets many times when I was a kid. It apparently changed in 1982.
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  #34  
Old 05 October 2018, 03:51 AM
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Can confirm that the phrase "E ticket ride" is still kicking around as a bit of old timey local slang. I was born in '83 but heard it from my folks, who moved to Orange County in the '70s, and it's worked its way into my speech occasionally.
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  #35  
Old 05 October 2018, 06:28 AM
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Link is members only.
That's weird -- I can't see it now either; had no trouble earlier.

There's a bit about them here: https://www.yesterland.com/abcde2.html

And more if you search around.

As noted on the page above, astronaut Sally Ride on her first trip on the Space Shuttle said "This is definitely an E-Ticket!" (A similar phrase is used in the Julie Brown song "The Homecoming Queen's Got a Gun," but that's a little more obscure...and somewhat less humorous in the post-Columbine era...)
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  #36  
Old 05 October 2018, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by kitap View Post
Disneyland has relatively few coasters: Space Mountain, Splash Mountain (a flume ride), Big Thunder Mountain Railway and the Matterhorn. California Adventure has Goofy's Sky School, what was California Scream in and the Grizzly Run flume ride.

That's not a lot.
I guess it depends on your definition of a roller coaster, then. My definition is that a roller coaster consists of cars on tracks not controllable by the riders. I consider Autotopia, Mr Toad's Wild Ride (if it still exists), Indiana Jones, Roger Rabbit, and the Radiator Springs racers to also be roller coasters.

Seaboe
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  #37  
Old 05 October 2018, 03:50 PM
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Merriam-Webster defines a roller coaster as having an elevated track so some of those rides don't meet the dictionary definition, such as Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.

My personal definition of a roller coaster is "a ride I will never, ever willingly go on."


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict...roller-coaster
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  #38  
Old 05 October 2018, 04:14 PM
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I would call Mr Toad's a dark ride. It doesn't fit any definition of roller coaster I would use. Similarly, Splash Mountain is a flume ride, IMO.

Space mountain is an indoor roller coaster. Matterhorn and Thunder Mountain would both be roller coasters as well.
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  #39  
Old 05 October 2018, 05:04 PM
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I think of a roller coaster as something that does sharp dives and/or rolls and/or loop de loops while up in the air. And I agree with Morning.

Possibly a thing I figured out today: the "roller" in the name may refer to its rolling on the tracks, and not to its doing rolls and/or making one's stomach do so? I always thought of it as the latter, though.
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  #40  
Old 05 October 2018, 06:52 PM
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I always assumed the original term "roller coaster" was coined because, in the classic sort, once your car has been pulled up to the top, it "coasts" for the rest of the ride, rather than being propelled by motors. (Sometimes you may be pulled up another hill partway through.) Presumably the "roller" is included to indicate it moves on wheels, rather than being some kind of bobsled or a flume ride.

This definition is of course muddled nowadays, as many coasters start by accelerating your car using linear induction or some such rather than using gravity, and there are probably some out there that use similar methods to boost your speed in mid-ride. (There's also the weird hybrid "Atlantis" ride at San Diego's Sea World...)

A "dark ride" in the classic sense is something like the Snow White, Pinnochio, or Mr. Toad rides; your ride vehicle moves along a track at a more-or-less constant speed through a building containing the various ride elements, but it doesn't actually coast. Disney has had more sophisticated variants of these in later years -- e.g., the suspended "flying" ships used for Peter Pan, the "omni-mover" vehicles used for the Haunted Mansion and the late Adventure Through Inner Space, and most recently, the large multi-moving vehicles on Indiana Jones, which use simulator-type movements in addition to following the course of the ride.

Last edited by E. Q. Taft; 05 October 2018 at 07:00 PM.
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