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  #21  
Old 09 January 2013, 04:04 PM
fitz1980 fitz1980 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
I'm sure you must be right but what would be some good examples of that?
Even today there are people who oppose gay rights while wanting racial equality.
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  #22  
Old 09 January 2013, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker View Post
Face it, Lincoln was human, and flawed. That isn't what most people want to see in a movie, except in small doses. They want heroes.

Seaboe
If that's the case, then why are shows like Oz, Mad Men, Game of Thrones, Battlestar Galactica, and Spartacus so popular?
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  #23  
Old 09 January 2013, 05:22 PM
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Because they're not about Lincoln, or other historical figures traditionally seen as heroes?

But I thought the movie did portray Lincoln as a person, not a hero. And given the time in which he lived, although his views on race were not radically progressive, I think it might be a bit unfair to call them a flaw.
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  #24  
Old 09 January 2013, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snopes View Post
Meet Abraham Lincoln, "The Great Emancipator" who "freed" the slaves.

That's not the version of Lincoln we get from Steven Spielberg's movie "Lincoln."
Um. Spielberg's Lincoln very narrowly focuses on Lincoln working with a lame-duck session of Congress to get the 13th Amendment passed during the first few months of 1865. It doesn't even address those larger issues discussed in the OP at all. As others have already pointed out it's Hollywood entertainment and not a documentary. Still, as Hollywood historical dramas go its history is pretty darn good (i.e., way better than average).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hummelcat View Post
Full disclosure: I haven't seen the film, so I'm just blowin' smoke here.
If you get a chance to see it I highly recommend doing so. It is one of my favorite 2012 movies. I think it's worth seeing just for the performances of Daniel Day-Lewis and Tommy Lee Jones.

Brian
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  #25  
Old 09 January 2013, 09:22 PM
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He once said African-Americans were inferior to whites. He proposed ending slavery by shipping willing slaves back to Africa.
Those are evidence of political practicality, not necessarily racism. He asserted that whites were superior to blacks while campaigning for an office he couldn't possibly have won had he said otherwise. And he entertained schemes for shipping slaves to Africa because he (and many others) felt it was an untenable solution to free millions of slaves into a society that was unlikely to ever accept them as social equals.
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  #26  
Old 09 January 2013, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amigone201 View Post
If that's the case, then why are shows like Oz, Mad Men, Game of Thrones, Battlestar Galactica, and Spartacus so popular?
Mad Men peaked at 3.5 million viewers, Game of Thrones at 6 million, BG at 3.8 million, Spartacus at 6 million (couldn't find Oz). In a country with 240 million adults.

By comparison, The Avengers sold on the order of 27 million tickets during the opening weekend. The shows you listed by no means address whether people want to see heroes or not (not saying my data does, either).
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  #27  
Old 09 January 2013, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
By Lincoln's time almost all of the slaves had lived in the Americas for more than 3 generations because intercontinental slave trade had been illegal for many decades. There were those who did try to return and some who succeeded, the African country of Liberia being one legacy of that history.
OK, I wasn't aware it was so many generations that had passed. That would be an entirely different matter, as I assume they would not have been able to speak the language of their ancestors, partly through being forbidden, and partly because they may have been mixed in with other ethnic groups previously.
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  #28  
Old 09 January 2013, 10:19 PM
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Also, the descendants of the people who sold their ancestors into slavery might not welcome them.
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  #29  
Old 09 January 2013, 10:41 PM
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By Lincoln's time freed slaves had been volunteering for decades (since at least 1820) to colonize Liberia, so I'm not sure it was entirely unreasonable for him, and others, to believe that many more freed slaves might want to do the same. I don't know whether there were plans for forced "repatriation," which would be an entirely different thing, though.
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  #30  
Old 09 January 2013, 10:46 PM
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There were proposals to "repatriate" all freed slaves, which by definition certainly would have been forced "repatriation" in at least some cases.
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  #31  
Old 09 January 2013, 10:48 PM
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Ah. That would indeed be reprehensible.
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  #32  
Old 10 January 2013, 01:25 AM
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But how much support did they really have?
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  #33  
Old 10 January 2013, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
Don't look to feature films for an accurate depiction of history, Lainie says.
Especially when the movie is not a biography film of which Lincoln is not. Just because the movie is telling a story centering around a big moment of Lincoln's life, doesn't make it a biography. It is biographical in a sense, but it is a fictitious.

Even biography films don't get things right all the time since it's trying to tell a good story.
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  #34  
Old 10 January 2013, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
But how much support did they really have?
I don't know, offhand. They weren't uncommon. The idea that it wouldn't be practical to assimilate freed slaves into US society wasn't uncommon.

Considering the brutality involved in slavery itself, it's hardly surprising that people were fine with the idea of forced "repatriation." Re-read what the OP says about Lincoln, and remember that although he was no radical egalitarian, he was a relatively progressive voice on race.
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  #35  
Old 10 January 2013, 12:29 PM
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Just on a sidenote, while I haven't seen Lincoln, I can't imagine it distorted history as much as Pocohontas did
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  #36  
Old 10 January 2013, 12:41 PM
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Not. Even. Close.
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  #37  
Old 10 January 2013, 01:02 PM
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Pocahontas is a story that was so far divorced from reality from the start that there was no chance at all of any scrap of the real history ever making it to the silver screen.
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  #38  
Old 10 January 2013, 02:42 PM
pinqy pinqy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
Pocahontas is a story that was so far divorced from reality from the start that there was no chance at all of any scrap of the real history ever making it to the silver screen.
And yet it was still more accurate than Braveheart, which was not only divorced from reality (and refusing to pay alimony) but also subject to a restraining order and reality had already remarried with multiple children.
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  #39  
Old 10 January 2013, 03:09 PM
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OK, but when I say "from the start" I mean literally from the first time the story was ever told.
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  #40  
Old 10 January 2013, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
divorced from reality (and refusing to pay alimony)
pinqy, can I steal that line? It made my morning.
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