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Old 15 June 2018, 05:19 PM
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Florida Roller coaster derails in Daytona Beach, six injured in accident

A roller coaster in Daytona Beach derailed late Thursday, causing two people to fall about 34 feet and sending a total of six people to a local hospital.

The Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services said Friday it is investigating the accident — and also revealed that the ride had been inspected within hours of its malfunction.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...615-story.html
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Old 15 June 2018, 07:33 PM
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Glasses

My sympathies and healing vibes to those injured in this accident.

I am recommitted to my personal vow to never, ever, ever ride a roller-coaster.

High in the air metal things can break!


Morning
hates bridges, too.
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Old 15 June 2018, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Morning View Post
hates bridges, too.
My wife has a fear of bridges. She's ok with big bridges you drive over, but hates to walk across foot bridges. She'll stay away from the edges and rush to the other side.

Ironically, she loves roller coasters.
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Old 18 June 2018, 06:18 PM
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From a rational point of view, I strongly suspect that riding just about any roller coaster in the country is safer than my daily commute.

Doesn't mean I'm ever getting on some of 'em, though....
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Old 18 June 2018, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Skeptic View Post
My wife has a fear of bridges. She's ok with big bridges you drive over, but hates to walk across foot bridges. She'll stay away from the edges and rush to the other side.
Does she also not like to be touched while she's crossing the bridge?

I hate bridges, but can walk across those I need to. Foot bridges are much worse than traffic bridges (with a few exceptions). My fear comes from having fallen off a bridge when I was about 3 years old.

I will ride kiddie roller coasters, and since almost all the rides at Disneyland are basically roller coasters, ride them, too--but not Space Mountain because the last time I rode it I thought my glasses were going to come off, and some of the turns gave me a headache.

I would never, ever ride a roller coaster that looped.

Seaboe
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Old 18 June 2018, 07:40 PM
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I'm actually OK with the older-fashioned looping roller coasters, because I understand the physics of it. At the speed you're going, the force holding your car to the track is greater than the force of gravity; you couldn't fall out if you tried.

On the other hand, some of the newer ones? I went to SeaWorld (San Diego) over the weekend, and they have a new coaster called "Electric Eel" which has twists in the track (like doing a roll in an airplane, as opposed to an inside loop). You are at various times completely upside down without anything holding you in but the restraint system (and whatever mechanism they use to keep the cars from falling of the track). While I am reasonably confident that they've taken all this into account in the design and construction and there's an ample safety factor...that doesn't particularly mean I want to experience it.

Last edited by E. Q. Taft; 18 June 2018 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 18 June 2018, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic View Post
My wife has a fear of bridges. She's ok with big bridges you drive over, but hates to walk across foot bridges. She'll stay away from the edges and rush to the other side.

Ironically, she loves roller coasters.
The bridges I hate are the big, river crossing, steel monstrosities that are at least oh, thousands of feet in the air (in my mind). There is very little chance of survival if your car is thrown into the river, imho.

I was 5 years old when the Silver Bridge collapsed in my father's home town and that really affected my fears and anxieties about bridges. I especially get tense when crossing the bridge that replaced the fallen one - the Silver Memorial Bridge.


I agree that Disney World and Disneyland have mostly kiddie coasters. That's why I was comfortable going on several of the rides. But never would I ever go on the "Tower of Terror" or the "Rock 'n Roller Coaster." I was quite content with Pirates of the Caribbean.



Morning
chose the "Green Mission" on Mission: Space.
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Old 18 June 2018, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
On the other hand, some of the newer ones? I went to SeaWorld (San Diego) over the weekend, and they have a new coaster called "Electric Eel" which has twists in the track (like doing a roll in an airplane, as opposed to an inside loop). You are at various times completely upside down without anything holding you in but the restraint system (and whatever mechanism they use to keep the cars from falling of the track). While I am reasonably confident that they've taken all this into account in the design and construction and there's an ample safety factor...that doesn't particularly mean I want to experience it.
That "barrel roll" type inversion is known to coaster enthusiasts as a "heartline maneuver". The roll is designed to twist along the center line of the train, roughly at heart-level for an average height rider.

The accident like the one at Daytona is pretty rare. Coaster trains are "clamped" to the rail depending on the type of coaster (i.e. wooden, "flying" coaster -- rails above the train, or a more traditional tubular steel track below it). On a wooden coaster, there is usually a steel plate mounted below the car that fits in the gap between the rails, which slides along rails beneath the more obvious ones above. On the steel coasters, there are a set of wheels above and below the rail that are connected together, that when viewed head-on looks something like a C-clamp.

For a coaster to leave the rail like in Daytona, one or both of the following needs to happen: the rail has to physically break or otherwise be so far out of alignment that both wheel sets leave the rail, and/or the wheelset itself comes apart (that was what happened on Big Thunder Mountain at Disneyland several years back), either from throwing a wheel or the bar that connects the upper and lower wheelsets breaks. The clamping wheel arrangement is pretty strong, but if one or more of them fails, it isn't a stretch for the weight of the car and the damaged assemblies from tearing up the rail.

~Psihala
(*Got stuck on Mister Twister at Elitch Gardens in Denver once due to a warped rail, and ended up having to walk back down the lift-hill -- and even that seemed tame in comparison to riding Olympia at the Oktoberfest in Munich.)

Last edited by Psihala; 18 June 2018 at 11:07 PM.
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  #9  
Old 19 June 2018, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
At the speed you're going, the force holding your car to the track is greater than the force of gravity; you couldn't fall out if you tried.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psihala View Post
Coaster trains are "clamped" to the rail depending on the type of coaster (i.e. wooden, "flying" coaster -- rails above the train, or a more traditional tubular steel track below it). On a wooden coaster, there is usually a steel plate mounted below the car that fits in the gap between the rails, which slides along rails beneath the more obvious ones above. On the steel coasters, there are a set of wheels above and below the rail that are connected together, that when viewed head-on looks something like a C-clamp.
Knowing all of this still does not make me want to ride a looping coaster, traditional or heartline. I know part of my fear is irrational (because, of course, I fear the train will leave the tracks), but some is actually rational--I'm terribly afraid I will lose my glasses (and riding blind is even less attractive than riding with my glasses, if that's even possible), or some loose piece of clothing, or my camera/phone, or that the coaster will give me a headache (as has happened before).

I liked Ferris Wheels when I was a kid, but I don't now. Part of that is my growing fear of falling as I age, and part of it is that you can't control who you ride with as an adult, and I absolutely dread being in a car with someone who thinks it's fun to rock.

Seaboe
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  #10  
Old 19 June 2018, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psihala View Post
That "barrel roll" type inversion is known to coaster enthusiasts as a "heartline maneuver". The roll is designed to twist along the center line of the train, roughly at heart-level for an average height rider.
The worst thing about the Electric Eel, IMHO, is that the train is actually going slowly when it makes the twist on the highest rail -- not only prolonging the upside-down time, but making it easy to imagine coming to a halt and being stuck upside-down for an indefinite time. I'm sure this adds to the thrill if you like that kind of thing, but I'll pass. (If it zipped through it quickly, you'd have less time to be scared, and I'd feel more comfortable that the momentum would carry me back to the upright position -- though I probably still would not want to do it.)

Of course, once it is right side up again, it then goes over a nearly-vertical drop, which might be enough to discourage me just by itself....
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Old 19 June 2018, 06:09 PM
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Knowing all of this still does not make me want to ride a looping coaster, traditional or heartline.
I understand, but I'm really not trying to convince anyone otherwise. The point of the post was more of a "how it works" post than a "really, its quite safe" post.

There are several types of coasters, and some are designed with the various types of inversions in mind (loops, butterfly, heartlines, corkscrews and the like) and some aren't (like junior coasters and traditional Wild Mice). The basics of how they work are more or less the same between them, though, so I thought some context might be helpful.

~Psihala
(*ETA: there's a persistent urban legend surrounding Lakeside Amusement Park's "Cyclone" wooden coaster that insists an entire train left the rails and ended up in the lake. Knowing how the coaster works would make the story almost impossible unless, a) the metal plates were broken or missing on most of the train, b) the outside rail on the super-elevated, big sweeping left-hand curve near the lake would have to somehow become detached from the framing to allow for free lateral movement, and c) (more to the point) there is no record of it ever happening at Lakeside or Elitch Gardens.

Last edited by Psihala; 19 June 2018 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 19 June 2018, 06:48 PM
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I thought my glasses were going to come off,

Seaboe
That's why I always took mine off. I went on Space Mountain when I was in CA back in '86. Over-rated.
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Old 20 June 2018, 02:10 AM
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Disney World has tons of great rides, but its roller-coasters generally suck. They have like some of the wussiest ones around.

I can handle most coasters no problem, but I am somewhat squeamish about driving over bridges and overpasses, ever since I heard about how much of the US infrastructure is in piss-poor shape. Say what you will about roller-coasters, but they are checked and maintained on a regular basis.

I’ve also developed an anxiety around stairs. I just keep seeing myself tripping, falling down, and busting my head. I did fall down the stairs when my grandparents lived at a house with stairs, but I was in the single digits, age-wise, so my bones were probably more supple, so it did less damage. It scared me, but falling down those stairs would probably be a completely different experience now.

Last edited by Mouse; 20 June 2018 at 02:14 AM. Reason: Thought of More to Say
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  #14  
Old 20 June 2018, 10:21 AM
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Disney World has tons of great rides, but its roller-coasters generally suck. They have like some of the wussiest ones around.
Space Mountain at WDW and Disneyland haven't aged well only when compared to newer coasters. Considering they've both been around since the mid-1970's, I'd call that pretty commendable.

Big Thunder Mountain is a decade newer and still not bad.

I'd wait in line for Rockin' Roller Coaster any day.

Expedition Everest wasn't built yet when I was there last, but the video that I've have of it looks fun.

The Seven Dwarfs Mine coaster was added recently when Fantasyland was redone, and I don't know much about it beyond what's available on Youtube, but I wouldn't expect a coaster located there to be too wild.

It's been a long time. Did I miss any others?

Quote:
Say what you will about roller-coasters, but they are checked and maintained on a regular basis.
At large, and/or well-established parks and places that actually enforce the codes, yes. The OP news report said the coaster in Daytona had been checked hours before the accident. Much the same can be said about bridges. Some states do a better job at checking them than others, but I expect I'm still less likely to hear about a bridge collapse. People driving off them or going over the side in an accident is more likely, but probably not when compared to the chance of being killed or injured in an accident elsewhere on the roadways.

~Psihala

Last edited by Psihala; 20 June 2018 at 10:41 AM.
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  #15  
Old 20 June 2018, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
Disney World has tons of great rides, but its roller-coasters generally suck. They have like some of the wussiest ones around.
I think this is because it's not the type of Parks they want them to be. They're meant for the family, not thrill- ride seekers. So they have one or two thrill rides, but most attractions aren't. Which is why my dad, who dislikes roller coasters, loves Disney Parks but not Universal (he also has some health issues where he can't do jerky rides, which is a shame because he really liked Indiana Jones).
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Old 20 June 2018, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Psihala View Post
I understand, but I'm really not trying to convince anyone otherwise.
I didn't think you were; I was speaking generally, using your post as a jumping off point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
I’ve also developed an anxiety around stairs. I just keep seeing myself tripping, falling down, and busting my head.
My mother became very cautious on stairs after she got bifocals, because when she looked down, the line of the bifocals cut through the edge of the step so she couldn't be sure where it was.

When I got progressive lenses, I discovered that, when I looked down, my feet seemed very far away. I already had a dislike of particular types of stair cases (those with open risers, and those with grills for steps), so I developed the same caution as my mother had.

This drove my BIL crazy when we were traveling, because he was always in a great hurry to get in and out of the subways and my caution made me slow (particularly when carrying a suitcase). As a result, I developed an stress-related dream in which I fell down stairs and smashed face-first into the wall at the bottom. The first time I had the dream, I had it 6 times in one night.

I've since analyzed the dream a little and determined that they are always exterior stairs, and always a single flight. Also, one I realized it was stress-related, I've managed to recognize the signs that the dream was approaching. I rarely have it any more, but even the thought of it still makes my heart race.

Seaboe
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Old 20 June 2018, 08:41 PM
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It's been a long time. Did I miss any others?
The first of all (at DL): The Matterhorn! (Pretty mild too, though.)

California Screamin' at DCA isn't exceptional, but it's not bad, as fairly standard coasters go.

Apart from that one, the Disney coasters are at least as much about the theming and the special effects as they are about giving an exciting ride. I don't think they've ever set out to compete with the top-notch coasters in that area. If you're in Southern California and you want intense roller coasters, you go to Six Flags Magic Mountain, or possibly Knott's Berry Farm. Disney manages to be popular enough without going for that market.

(Back when there was talk of building a villain-themed park on the site of what is now the parking structure, I thought that would be an appropriate place to go for more thrill-heavy rides. But that idea was never pursued.)
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Old 20 June 2018, 11:27 PM
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California Screamin has closed and is being replaced with the Incredicoaster to keep up with the theme change of the area to "Pixar Pier". It's planned opening is 6/23/18.

Still not going to ever ride it.

M
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Old 22 June 2018, 02:34 AM
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I suppose I’m still bitter, because The Babysitters’ Club had a book where they went to Disney World. There was all this talk in there about Space Mountain and how fast and scary it was. Then I go to Disney World and ride and am like, “The hell?! This is what they were talking about.”

But maybe I should have known better than to expect realism from a series where thirteen-year-old girls look and act like thirty-year-olds, regularly solve major crimes, and experience several Halloweens and Christmases all within a single year, during which they have several vacations and run the gamut of fashion from the 80s to the 90s. Dammit, those books had me convinced that being thirteen was cool, not neverending awkwardness and misery.
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