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Old 26 June 2014, 02:22 PM
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Icon97 Mom refused to take child to hospital over vegan beliefs

A Casselberry mother was arrested on allegations of refusing to take her newborn, diagnosed by a doctor as dehydrated, to a hospital because of her staunch vegan stance.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/cas...liefs/26657244
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Old 26 June 2014, 02:31 PM
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Refusing to hospitalize a very sick child has nothing to do with being vegan. Staunch vegans regularly receive hospital treatment.
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Old 26 June 2014, 02:40 PM
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Just a typical misattribution of behavior to beliefs.
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Old 26 June 2014, 03:06 PM
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This specific mom does seem to have refused to take her child to the hospital because of her vegan beliefs - or I guess more accurately the way she lives her vegan beliefs. The article is not saying everyone with vegan beliefs would behave the same way.
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Old 26 June 2014, 03:07 PM
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It is surely based on some belief, if only the belief she shouldn't have the hospitalize her child. But not a vegan belief.
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Old 26 June 2014, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Markham said she did not give the formula/medicine that the doctor provided because she did not agree with the ingredients, which she said came from animals, the police report stated.
While I agree that not going to a hospital is not typical vegan behavior, this woman did appear to be basing her choices on the fact that she did not want to feed her child anything with animal products in it.
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Old 26 June 2014, 03:10 PM
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But that is why the child needed to be hospitalized (failure to administer formula/ medicine prescribed), not her reason for not hospitalizing him.
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Old 26 June 2014, 03:10 PM
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Vegans breastfeed, I assume? I know not all women can, but given all this I wonder about this woman's opinion of that, too.
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Old 26 June 2014, 03:12 PM
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Are all behaviors are based on beliefs? Hmm.
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Old 26 June 2014, 03:14 PM
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Has anyone said so?
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Old 26 June 2014, 03:15 PM
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Depends on how you define behavior. Breathing is not based on a belief. Tossing and turning in bed is not based on a belief. But most conscious behaviors, I would argue, are based on a belief or beliefs of some sort.
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Old 26 June 2014, 03:23 PM
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For example, I just picked up donuts on the way to work because I believed people would appreciate it. Then I chose fruit over donuts for myself because I believe it's healthier and lower in calories. And I had a cup of coffee because I believe it will help me stay awake. And I am snopesing in this meeting because I believe no one else can tell (among other reasons).
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Old 26 June 2014, 03:23 PM
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It sounds like she has some bizarre beliefs that are based on outright misinformation. for example, Whole Foods sells non-vegan products. Meat even. And something being "safe" from an organic standpoint does not make it automatically safe or appropriate for a neonate.

Anyway, some mothers have difficulty producing enough breast milk an the baby needs supplemental formula. There are soy based (rather than cow milk based) formulas, so I wonder for her doctor gave her that, and if not why not, and if so, did she still feel that some of the added vitamins were animal derived?
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Old 26 June 2014, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avril View Post
Has anyone said so?
Chloe said her actions were certainly based on some belief so I was trying to clarify what she meant.

It sounds like circular reasoning to me, though. What is conscious behavior? Behavior for which we have a choice. What does it mean to make a choice? To decide based on a belief. So, yeah, by certain definitions conscious behavior is based on beliefs. This tells us nothing useful or falsifiable about beliefs or behaviors but it makes us feel good. We're in control; All we have to do is change our beliefs and we can change our behavior. Simple. No evidence for this theory but it is very popular so.
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Old 26 June 2014, 03:33 PM
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I don't think it's that necessarily that easy to change a belief. Could I believe that donuts are healthier than fruit? I don't think so, without significant evidence. We see that here all the time. "All I have to do is change my belief" is nowhere near as easy as it sounds. And whether you find something useful or not has no bearing on whether or not it is true.
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Old 26 June 2014, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
We're in control; All we have to do is change our beliefs and we can change our behavior. Simple. No evidence for this theory but it is very popular so.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2778019/

You're hijacking this thread. What are your reasons for doing so? Do you have anything at all to say about the OP article?
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Old 26 June 2014, 03:37 PM
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I am guessing he is posting what he is posted because he believes his point of view is valid, useful, and interesting. And that he believes people will get something out of it.
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Old 26 June 2014, 03:54 PM
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I just think it's funny that everyone blames beliefs until their own cherished beliefs get blamed and then they say "oh, no, not those beliefs; they would never."

I don't think it's a hijack. That's what this is about: Did her vegan beliefs cause this? Or did some others? There's no evidence either did so people can speculate all they want and, unfortunately, such unfounded speculation is not only based on ones own latent prejudices but it is taken as plausible except when it is contradicted by our own experiences. That's why so few question stories like the OP. Unless it contradicts our own knowledge about said belief, we don't reject stories that blame, for example, terrorism on religious beliefs, or gun violence on a lack of belief in a certain deity, etc. Instead of rejecting all of these assertions as unfounded, we reject only the ones that offend our own knowledge.
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Old 26 June 2014, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
I just think it's funny that everyone blames beliefs until their own cherished beliefs get blamed and then they say "oh, no, not those beliefs; they would never."
If you're referring to me pointing out that veganism is not incompatible with hospitalization, I am not a vegan. Would you have posted this if you had believed differently?
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Old 26 June 2014, 03:57 PM
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I have no idea what you're talking about. Obviously most vegans do not end up in this situation. Her beliefs don't have to be universally held by vegans to be beliefs. Do you mean something other than belief?
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