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  #41  
Old 02 June 2010, 03:33 PM
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AnglRdr AnglRdr is offline
 
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They arrested him for trespassing as he was standing at the gate? I don't get where he was trespassing. Cannot imagine this case getting further than being dismissed quickly.
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  #42  
Old 02 June 2010, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
It's not clear he's retired -- at first the article calls him an "off-duty police officer", then later it says he's a "former" police officer from NJ.
The article is poorly written in that regard, but I think they're saying that the home owner was an off-duty cop, and the census enumerator (Hass) is a former cop.
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  #43  
Old 02 June 2010, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
It's not clear he's retired -- at first the article calls him an "off-duty police officer", then later it says he's a "former" police officer from NJ.

I noticed that. Maybe he worked as an officer in NJ and now works in Hawaii.
I wonder if he already filled out the one he got in the mail and feels like they are harrassing him.

Quote:
"I handed them the Census and expected them to hand them to this guy and say, 'That's it,'" Haas said. "They walked over and talked to him for a minute or two, then walked back to me ... and then stuffed it into my chest, and said, 'He doesn't have to enter your Census. He doesn't have to enter any Census. He doesn't have to fill out any of your forms or answer any of your questions. And if I were you, I'd get into my car and get the hell outta here, right now.'
So maybe he's in the witness protection program and he isn't going to fill it out.
It's odd for a police officer to say someone doesn't have to enter the Census isn't it?
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  #44  
Old 02 June 2010, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Wild Redhead View Post
I noticed that. Maybe he worked as an officer in NJ and now works in Hawaii.
Psst -- Chillas already clarified this bit.
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  #45  
Old 02 June 2010, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MichiganGirl View Post
As a last resort, we can get info from neighbors. But we are supposed to ask for names even if we get info from proxys. Theirs, as well as the person who gave us the info.
As already stated, they asked for my name and contact info for the few homes around mine that were not available when the census worker came knocking. As I live in a resort town and the homes around mine are vacation homes (except for the one that is not attached to its foundation and we've never met nor seen the owners), I had no problem helping her out - especially since the beans had just gone down for a nap.
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  #46  
Old 02 June 2010, 06:31 PM
Gayle Gayle is offline
 
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Our local crackpot ambulance chaser had a different response to the situation.
http://www.statesman.com/news/local/...ed-685522.html

What a moron. I see a disbarment a-comin'.
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  #47  
Old 02 June 2010, 06:39 PM
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So let me get this straight...

Police in Arizona demanding proof of citizenship = "A few people might be inconvenienced; no one's rights are being violated."
A census worker coming to your door = "A major violation of your rights."

And I have a question: Say someone technically did return their census form, but subscribed to the "I'm not required to tell them anything other than how many people live here" belief and didn't answer any of the other questions, would that trigger a visit from a census worker?
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  #48  
Old 02 June 2010, 06:42 PM
Gayle Gayle is offline
 
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Originally Posted by WildaBeast View Post
So let me get this straight...

Police in Arizona demanding proof of citizenship = "A few people might be inconvenienced; no one's rights are being violated."
A census worker coming to your door = "A major violation of your rights."
Very succinctly put. But you know it's just the brown folk that have to carry the proof of citizenship.
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  #49  
Old 02 June 2010, 07:00 PM
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So do census workers only come if you didn't send in your form? We got a note on our door that they stopped by when we were out, does that mean they didn't receive our form, or do they ask additional questions?
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  #50  
Old 02 June 2010, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by WildaBeast View Post
Police in Arizona demanding proof of citizenship = "A few people might be inconvenienced; no one's rights are being violated."
A census worker coming to your door = "A major violation of your rights."
At least until they are stopped by a police officer demanding to see proof of citizenship.

If there was an influx of undocumented workers from Canada, Britain, Sweden, or any other Europeon (anglo-saxon/white) nation, you can bet these people would be screaming bloody murder about the unconstitutionality of the Arizona law because they might actually be affected by it. However, because we are picking on people who come from historically second and third world nations, are poor, and there is no chance they would ever be confused with true-blue-blooded-'Mericans, it's ok for now.
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  #51  
Old 02 June 2010, 08:14 PM
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A Turtle Named Mack A Turtle Named Mack is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildaBeast View Post
So let me get this straight...

Police in Arizona demanding proof of citizenship = "A few people might be inconvenienced; no one's rights are being violated."
But of course, that, as stated, is not at all authorized under Arizona law, either now or when the new law goes into effect. First, off, the Arizona law does not focus on citizenship but any legal residency, both citizenship and green card (or other legal non-citizen residency status). More importantly, the law only allows for the citizenship check when a person has already been detained by the police on suspicion of some other violation, such as a traffic stop, etc. And if the person has a state-issued i.d. from any state, such as a drivers license, the matter ends right there (well, I suppose an obvious forgery would lead to inquiries into that - so don;t try using Arnold Schwarzenegger's d.l. with your face pasted over his).

And since it was you who brought up the subject, I will put it to you to find a cite that relies on the actual terms of the law in toto, rather than speculation, to say that the police are authorized by the Arizona law to stop a person only to check for legal residency status.
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  #52  
Old 02 June 2010, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
The U.S. Attorney's office filed papers Thursday in federal court in Honolulu to take the case of 57-year-old Russell Haas out of 3rd District Court.

...

"Then I [Haas] went, 'Dude, if you're a cop, you know that you have to be in the Census. You have to be because you've sworn an oath to uphold and obey (the law).'"
Is there a misprint in his age, or something?
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  #53  
Old 02 June 2010, 09:08 PM
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Lainie Lainie is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
Is there a misprint in his age, or something?
Everyone in Hawaii says "dude." They all surf, too. Both activities are mandatory.
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  #54  
Old 02 June 2010, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by CSGirl View Post
So do census workers only come if you didn't send in your form? We got a note on our door that they stopped by when we were out, does that mean they didn't receive our form, or do they ask additional questions?
The census operation that's in progress now is the Non Response Follow Up. So yea, they probably didn't get it. If they had questions on your form, they'd have called (probably). So either it didn't get there, or got there too late to stay off the NRFU list. Do your enumerator a favor and call back. Even if you sent it in, once you're on the list, we're required to fill out a form for you.

Gibbie
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  #55  
Old 02 June 2010, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by snopes View Post
Yes. If you have extra space in your home and refuse to divulge who's using it, the government will assume you live alone and start quartering soldiers with you.
Then I would hereby like to amend my census information: I live in a 9,000 sq ft house. Alone.

Barbara "finally going to get my three Marines" Mikkelson
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  #56  
Old 03 June 2010, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara View Post
Then I would hereby like to amend my census information: I live in a 9,000 sq ft house. Alone.

Barbara "finally going to get my three Marines" Mikkelson
I'll take two sailors.
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  #57  
Old 07 June 2010, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack View Post
More importantly, the law only allows for the citizenship check when a person has already been detained by the police on suspicion of some other violation, such as a traffic stop, etc.
Not quite correct. The law says "for any lawful contact". Which could include checking the status of someone reporting a crime.

Quote:
And since it was you who brought up the subject, I will put it to you to find a cite that relies on the actual terms of the law in toto, rather than speculation, to say that the police are authorized by the Arizona law to stop a person only to check for legal residency status.
The law as written says that police does not allow stopping just to check for legal status. But considering the previous actions of Sherrif Joe, I don't think it speculation to think that some law enforement officers will use extremely minor reasons to detain and check for DWB*.

* Driving While Brown
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  #58  
Old 13 June 2010, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by vanilla View Post
If there was an influx of undocumented workers from Canada, Britain, Sweden, or any other Europeon (anglo-saxon/white) nation, you can bet these people would be screaming bloody murder about the unconstitutionality of the Arizona law because they might actually be affected by it. However, because we are picking on people who come from historically second and third world nations, are poor, and there is no chance they would ever be confused with true-blue-blooded-'Mericans, it's ok for now.
I don't know about this. This country has a long, proud history of harrassing and hating pretty much all recent immigrants. (See "No Irish Need Apply".)
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  #59  
Old 13 June 2010, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Zorro View Post
I don't know about this. This country has a long, proud history of harrassing and hating pretty much all recent immigrants. (See "No Irish Need Apply".)
In general, pretty much anyone who doesn't have a strong Irish heritage has forgotten about that one, though. I know we never learned about it in school. We learned about discrimination against the Chinese and against blacks, but never about discrimination against European immigrants.
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  #60  
Old 13 June 2010, 01:54 AM
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And in my history classes, we learned about discrimination against blacks, and NINA, but not about internment camps set up for Japanese during WWII and other discriminatory practices against Asians. And I had a large Asian population at my high school.
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