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  #1  
Old 16 November 2017, 11:23 PM
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No US to lift ban on elephant hunting trophy imports

The Trump administration will allow American hunters to import elephant trophies to the US, reversing an Obama-era 2014 ban, US media report.

A federal government agency said imports could resume on Friday for elephants that are legally hunted only in Zambia and Zimbabwe.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42005819


Quote:
The US Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) said hunting fees could aid conservation of the endangered animals.
Experts say that populations of African elephants are plummeting.
Could aid? Or will aid? Do you actually have a plan for how killing endangered animals will save them?
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  #2  
Old 17 November 2017, 05:32 PM
RichardM RichardM is offline
 
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The theory that hunting elephants will be so profitable for the country that they will help the elephants thrive to breed more elephants to shoot.
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  #3  
Old 17 November 2017, 07:49 PM
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I've had it explained as the fees from the hunting tags will go to conservation efforts. In addition, by culling the weaker members of the herd, the remaining members will be better able to survive and reproduce more. That part seems to be based on things like deer in North America - they are hunted at least in part to keep the population in check so they don't end up over grazing. Of course, they are smaller animals that breed and mature at a much higher rate than elephants, so I'm not entirely sure that it holds up.
Even given all of that, I am pretty sure that the reasoning is so that Trump's kids can get some elephant trophies.
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  #4  
Old 17 November 2017, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Legal, well-regulated sport hunting as part of a sound management program can benefit the conservation of certain species by providing incentives to local communities to conserve the species and by putting much-needed revenue back into conservation.
Apart from the major qualifications built into that statement (how well regulated is the hunting, how sound is the management program?), this assumption that the local communities will want to preserve the species for their revenue is based on the local communities forgoing large short-term benefits in favor of smaller long-term benefits.

Also, wouldn't this make smuggling of poached ivory much easier since someone could claim the ivory was legally hunted?
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  #5  
Old 17 November 2017, 08:24 PM
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Beyond all the issues I have with hunting and killing elephants, I can't help but see this as being a boon for the poaching industry: now they'll have a much easier time smuggling illegally-killed animal parts into the US.
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  #6  
Old 17 November 2017, 08:39 PM
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Can we simply expand the legal definition of "elephant" to include the Republicans for which it is their traditional mascot?
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  #7  
Old 17 November 2017, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
Beyond all the issues I have with hunting and killing elephants, I can't help but see this as being a boon for the poaching industry: now they'll have a much easier time smuggling illegally-killed animal parts into the US.
Yes, that's been one of the reason for a blanket ban on ivory imports. In theory, I have no objection in trading in ivory that was taken from elephants decades ago, or what might be harvested from elephants that die of natural causes, or otherwise lose their tusks. But It makes it too easy to label poached ivory as being from legitimate sources; it's more effective to just ban it altogether.
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Old 17 November 2017, 09:38 PM
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As much as I like shooting and hunting (here in Australia), I have never been convinced that the hunting of elephants is a benefit to the species or the local population. I thought I would throw out a handful of ideas in to the mix.
  • Why are we letting a US govt agency decide, rather than an internation and well respected body like CITES.
  • What part of the supposed 'hunting fees' will go to preservation efforts.
  • Anti-poaching patrols are already well established and seem to be well funded.
  • The silly argument that it will 'feed the local population' is ludicrous. They are killing a 40 year old elephant to give them the equivalent of a few cows' worth of meat.
  • As it can now be assumed that all ivory is poached, the relaxation of these rules will make it so easy for smugglers to claim that new ivory is legal.
  • I predict there will be a large number of boycotts and embargoes on ivory, with some airlines already banning the transport of ivory.
  • The hunters do not take out the 'weak and unwell' elephants. Nature already does that. Hunters target the largest and oldest, thus removing the prime traits that keep the herd safe.
  • Elephants are intelligent and social creatures. The loss of the lead bull often has an ongoing effect on the herd as they lose their leader only to be replaced by a less experienced younger male.
  • Many of these countries where hunting will take place do not even have decent human rights, so it a stretch to assume that this process will proceed correctly without bribes etc.
Wow, need to get that off my chest.
Thanks all.
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  #9  
Old 17 November 2017, 10:34 PM
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Elephants are actually a matriarchal species: herds are females with their calves while adult males lead solitary lives except during the breeding season. But the rest of that is spot on, Skeptic.
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  #10  
Old 18 November 2017, 03:12 AM
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Default Trump delays new policy on importing elephant parts

WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump said Friday he's delaying a new policy allowing the body parts of African elephants shot for sport to be imported until he can review "all conservation facts."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...1TM?li=BBnb7Kz


I’ve been refraining from posting on this because I was too angry to trust my rationale, but this is a bit of good news. I hope this lasts.
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  #11  
Old 18 November 2017, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Credence View Post
I That part seems to be based on things like deer in North America - they are hunted at least in part to keep the population in check so they don't end up over grazing. Of course, they are smaller animals that breed and mature at a much higher rate than elephants, so I'm not entirely sure that it holds up.
In addition to the differences you and others have mentioned: white tail deer in significant areas of North America are very much the reverse of endangered; to the point at which they themselves are endangering other species, by eating way too much of the forest understory.

Plus which, they're hunted under a highly regulated system which, while not perfectly obeyed, is obeyed well enough that significant overhunting hasn't been occuring. If anything, they're having trouble getting enough people to come out during the season. (Today is actually opening day here. Years ago dawn of opening day used to come with a fusillade from all directions. This morning I haven't heard a thing yet.)
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  #12  
Old 18 November 2017, 03:07 PM
RichardM RichardM is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Pink Pill View Post
WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump said Friday he's delaying a new policy allowing the body parts of African elephants shot for sport to be imported until he can review "all conservation facts."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...1TM?li=BBnb7Kz
What this really means is that Trump is going to delay the new policy until Jr. convinces him that he (Jr) really needs an elephant head to mount on the wall.
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  #13  
Old 18 November 2017, 04:00 PM
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Or Trump is shopping for someone who can turn an elephant skull into a throne that he can install in the Oval Office.
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  #14  
Old 18 November 2017, 07:28 PM
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I wouldn't mind if he had to sit on a single tusk.
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  #15  
Old 19 November 2017, 12:24 AM
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I imagine that elephants are ashamed to find themselves serving as the mascot for the GOP. Elephants are deeply empathic animals, who demonstrate great intelligence, and have strong ties to their herd, with every member doing what they can to look after each other. Bull elephants get stereotyped as loners, but that's not entirely true; they've been known to form what is called bachelor herds, usually consisting of a couple of older bulls and a couple of younger ones. The older bulls serve to mentor and keep the younger ones in line.

Now ask yourselves, can any of what I just mentioned be applied to any member of the GOP?
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  #16  
Old 19 November 2017, 03:11 PM
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Old males teaching young males bad habits.
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  #17  
Old 19 November 2017, 06:45 PM
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The really big difference between deer in the US and elephants in Africa is that the natural predators of deer in the Americas have been largely eradicated. Hunting is pretty much required to keep the deer from over foraging and then staving to death (or causing other species to starve to death). Elephants on the other hand don't really have major predators. Lions take some but those are mostly the old. Not many young elephants are taken by lions since elephants are pretty darn good at killing lions.

So, hunting deer in modern North America is basically a requirement to maintain a health population since deer can thrive in both rural and suburban environments (as well as in wild habitats). Hunting elephants does not appear to be a requirement anywhere in the world except when humans want to take over the elephants habitat.
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  #18  
Old 19 November 2017, 08:16 PM
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Yeah, deer typically have one to two offspring every year that are able to go off and be independent at around a year old, reaching reproductive maturity by about 18 months. Elephants have a single calf after a nearly two year gestation period, then spend 3-6 years caring for it. Females don't usually reach sexually mature until they're 12, while bull elephants typically don't begin breeding until they're around 25.
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