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  #141  
Old 11 December 2015, 08:39 PM
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Actually, buying a gun with the intent to give or sell it to someone else is a crime all by itself.
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  #142  
Old 11 December 2015, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack View Post
Maybe not - I have been seeing articles that say the initial purchaser may have bought them for the couple to help keep them off the radar,
full stop. That's a felony for a straw purchase. If you pay someone to purchase a gun for you (whether or not you are eligible to purchase yourself), it's a straw purchase.

Yeah, I saw an article today saying someone bought rifles for them. Personally, if someone came to me and said "Hey, could you go buy these guns for me?" I'd tell them to piss off. If there's a reason you can't buy them yourself, then it's probably a pretty damned good one.
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  #143  
Old 11 December 2015, 10:23 PM
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Little Pink Pill Little Pink Pill is offline
 
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It wasn't just someone, it was Farook's friend who converted, married into the family, and help plan a canceled attack in 2012. He was part of the conspiracy.
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  #144  
Old 12 December 2015, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack View Post
I did not read it that way because of the second half of what was said "it was legal to give them to the shooters" - Nuh-uh, not if you know the people you are buying them for intend to commit crimes.
Note the "if" in that statement. Fact is the guns could have been perfectly legally obtained, whether they were or were not has not been established and bottom line doesn't much matter since they could have been legal.
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  #145  
Old 12 December 2015, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
Actually, buying a gun with the intent to give or sell it to someone else is a crime all by itself.
Not in the US it isn't. Gun dealers do it all the time. So do gun collectors. So do many gun owners. It happens all the time. It is only a crime if the person you give the gun to could not obtain a gun through a legal purchase at a gun store. People buy guns as gifts in the US all the time and a person can give a gun to another anytime they want as long as the person is allowed to own a gun.

IF the source of the guns in the California case knew the two nutcases intent then the giving is illegal. IF the source of the guns in the California case was making a straw-man purchase to obscure the ownership of the gun then it is illegal. Otherwise it is perfectly legal. There is no pre-existing reason that a US citizen with no criminal record, who can legal own a gun, could not be gifted a gun.
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  #146  
Old 15 December 2015, 07:12 PM
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I don't think that's true in California. Gun transfers must be registered unless it's parent to (adult) child or spouse to spouse.

Quote:
Generally, all firearms purchases and transfers, including private party transactions and sales at gun shows, must be made through a California licensed dealer under the Dealer’s Record of Sale (DROS) process.

(Pen. Code, 26800-26850.)
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  #147  
Old 15 December 2015, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jimmy101_again View Post
Not in the US it isn't. Gun dealers do it all the time. So do gun collectors. So do many gun owners.
They can only do it legally if they have a federal firearms dealer license or are purchasing from a private citizen. Which the guy who bought the guns is not according to the information we have. So while my statement is not true for all cases, it is quite true for this case, regardless of whether the buyer knew that the couple was going to commit a crime.

Quote:
It is only a crime if the person you give the gun to could not obtain a gun through a legal purchase at a gun store.
Is is a crime if you are purchasing a gun on behalf of another person whether or not the person could legally buy a gun. Gifts are okay, but having person A ask person B to buy gun X is illegal whether or not person A could buy a gun legally.

The thing to remember is that I was addressing was ATNM's assertion:

Quote:
bought them for the couple to help keep them off the radar, knowing full well they intended to use them for violent jihad. Purchases on behalf of others when you know a crime is intended is a felony.
And pointing out that it was not necessary to know the couple had criminal intent. Buying a gun "to keep them off the radar" or "on behalf of others" is a crime even without any knowledge of criminal intent.

Last edited by GenYus234; 15 December 2015 at 08:38 PM. Reason: address other points and clarify
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  #148  
Old 16 December 2015, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
The thing to remember is that I was addressing was ATNM's assertion:

And pointing out that it was not necessary to know the couple had criminal intent. Buying a gun "to keep them off the radar" or "on behalf of others" is a crime even without any knowledge of criminal intent.
You were right about the illegality in California, I was looking at Federal law. But on the other point "buying a gun to keep them off the radar" is illegal under federal law (and California law) but my point there was that we don't know that was the case. It has been suggested but the various law enforcement agency haven't (that I have seen) presented any evidence or even suggested that that was the case. There are a lot of illegal things the 2+1 might have done, what we actually know they did is a heck of a lot less. I don't even think the guy who bought the gun has been arrested.
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  #149  
Old 17 December 2015, 10:38 PM
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Default Enrique Marquez charged

SAN BERNARDINO, Calif. (KABC) -- Enrique Marquez, the former neighbor and friend of San Bernardino shooter Syed Farook, has been charged with conspiring to provide material support to terrorists, the unlawful purchase of two assault rifles and defrauding immigration authorities.

http://abc7.com/news/enrique-marquez...ttack/1126144/
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