snopes.com  

Go Back   snopes.com > SLC Central > Social Studies

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 01 November 2015, 07:14 PM
Rebochan's Avatar
Rebochan Rebochan is offline
 
Join Date: 19 February 2002
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 11,611
Yow!

I'd point out that we are most definitely not getting the whole story given the source of the OP article and the fact that a respectable source has not gone back to verify any part of the story.

Like, hey, here's the twitter feed in question:

https://twitter.com/STABrampton/stat...96065244762113

This is the entire story. All of it.

Wait... a... minute... what's in that response...



OH COME ON SERIOUSLY?! Is that damn hashtag stalking me everywhere now?!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01 November 2015, 07:29 PM
Sue's Avatar
Sue Sue is online now
 
Join Date: 26 December 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,127
Default

Do you think the whole story was made up? I admit I wondered about the name Sewerynek, I don't know much about Colombia but that name sounds more Eastern European to me and the references I found in a quick google all showed it to be a Polish name. If the story actually is true but his family origins are not Colombian even if they lived in Colombia can this lad still make the argument that this mariachi costume still represents his culture?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01 November 2015, 07:55 PM
Rebochan's Avatar
Rebochan Rebochan is offline
 
Join Date: 19 February 2002
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 11,611
Icon05

There could well be more to this story, like the boy was never planning on dressing up (the twitter account he posted from is brand new) like that and wanted to cause trouble, the school made allowances, etc.

I find it very suspicious that the OP article is simply reporting a short exchange from twitter and apparently spoke to the boy? But the boy's Facebook page is very sparse... until this incident.

I have to wonder if he wasn't planning on stirring controversy and deliberately picked a costume he knew he'd get in trouble for. Also as you mentioned, we don't actually know if he has the family history he's claiming - which is not normally an issue but he's using his Colombian heritage as a justification for the story. Yea, he seems to have a Polish name, but he could easily be of mixed heritage. There does not appear to be any attempt to speak to his family at all, like, say, his parents, who could have provided additional background on the story (especially further justification for the costume that would strength their case.) There is no attempt to speak to the school for further information about the policy.

This is just sloppy reporting - which makes sense given that again, the site in question is not really a news site.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01 November 2015, 08:11 PM
Sue's Avatar
Sue Sue is online now
 
Join Date: 26 December 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,127
Default

Also the story mentions that the students at the school were supposed to send pictures of their costumes by twitter and the school would say nay or yea. Is this a realistic approach that most schools would take? I admit my experiences with high schools pre-date twitter - or at least pre-date the widespread use of twitter - but it seems like a time consuming approach to take.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01 November 2015, 08:20 PM
Avril's Avatar
Avril Avril is offline
 
Join Date: 07 August 2002
Location: Princeton, NJ
Posts: 10,543
Default

That is a bit weird.

Forgive my ignorance, but what do Halloween costumes have to do with GamerGate?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01 November 2015, 08:25 PM
Rebochan's Avatar
Rebochan Rebochan is offline
 
Join Date: 19 February 2002
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 11,611
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
Also the story mentions that the students at the school were supposed to send pictures of their costumes by twitter and the school would say nay or yea. Is this a realistic approach that most schools would take? I admit my experiences with high schools pre-date twitter - or at least pre-date the widespread use of twitter - but it seems like a time consuming approach to take.
I don't disagree that this is a really silly approach, but it looks like the school was encouraging it. I assume this was NOT the only source for costume approval though.

https://twitter.com/STABrampton/stat...28510968131623


Quote:
Originally Posted by Avril View Post
Forgive my ignorance, but what do Halloween costumes have to do with GamerGate?
I have no idea, and yet, one of the people responding to the school's response to his question included the hashtag.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01 November 2015, 08:31 PM
Sue's Avatar
Sue Sue is online now
 
Join Date: 26 December 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebochan View Post
I don't disagree that this is a really silly approach, but it looks like the school was encouraging it. I assume this was NOT the only source for costume approval though.

https://twitter.com/STABrampton/stat...28510968131623
Ah, that does make more sense, according to the link the kids could submit their costume idea to "Cardy" if they weren't sure it would be approved on the day they were supposed to wear them. The article in the OP made it sound like all costumes were meant to be pre-screened via Twitter which seemed a little onerous to say the least!
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01 November 2015, 08:40 PM
Coughdrops Coughdrops is offline
 
 
Join Date: 15 June 2015
Location: Columbia, MO
Posts: 786
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avril View Post

Forgive my ignorance, but what do Halloween costumes have to do with GamerGate?
A lot of the gaters have the mindset of a conspiracy theorist. Just as anytime something an Alex Jones follower doesn't like happens it's the fault of the NWO, so it is with gaters and sjws.

Someone I know said it best. That it's getting to the point where people like this will 'protect' a culture by forbidding it's expression, lest it be 'tainted' by people of the 'wrong' skin color.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01 November 2015, 09:24 PM
Rebochan's Avatar
Rebochan Rebochan is offline
 
Join Date: 19 February 2002
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 11,611
Soapbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coughdrops View Post
A lot of the gaters have the mindset of a conspiracy theorist. Just as anytime something an Alex Jones follower doesn't like happens it's the fault of the NWO, so it is with gaters and sjws.
... you know one of the sites running this story is InfoWars, right?

http://www.infowars.com/school-bans-...oween-costume/

Quote:
Someone I know said it best. That it's getting to the point where people like this will 'protect' a culture by forbidding it's expression, lest it be 'tainted' by people of the 'wrong' skin color.
Yea, I'm sure we should take this little twitter drama that cropped up and went nowhere as a sign of the SJWpocalypse.

Did you read any of my concerns about the lack of any qualifying information about what happened? All we have are a few tweets being plastered all over a right-wing propaganda page.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01 November 2015, 09:24 PM
Spacegirl Spiff's Avatar
Spacegirl Spiff Spacegirl Spiff is offline
 
Join Date: 12 June 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 148
Default

That seems pretty unlikely to me. The prescreening of every individual costume like that (rather than just setting a dress code and dealing with any possibly, for whatever reason, inappropriate costumes anyone shows up in as it happens) is something I've never heard of before, but not something I'd immediately doubt in and of itself. Sending and receiving the pictures through twitter, though, rather than a school email or something along those lines, sounds really odd and a little.... Skeevy, to be honest.

Though looking at the school's twitter now*, it looks like the idea wasn't so much that they HAD to send pictures and get them approved in order to have permission to wear them as it was that students COULD send them in to check first if they wanted to make sure there wouldn't be any issues before they actually showed up to school in them. Which seems a lot less weird than actually requiring the school's students to interact with the school on Twitter.

Considering the boy created a twitter account that he literally named "IsMyCostumeRaci[st]" in order to send the picture, his unironic use of the terms "PC Police" and "SJWs" and open disdain of the people he's referring to, and his general conduct throughout his online presence, I think it's pretty safe to say there's probably some significant weight to the theory that he was deliberately trying to provoke trouble and wasn't really ever asking in good faith to begin with. I wouldn't be surprised if the school administration picked up on that and that was influential in their denying him, particularly if he's been known for trying to rile other students and/or teachers up at school in the past, and they were worried he was looking to use Halloween as an excuse to intentionally upset people for fun.

*If you choose to scroll down, be aware that there are, unfortunately but unsurprisingly, multiple melodramatically whinging self-styled "Anti-SJWs" doing such charming things as replying with pictures of Hitler costumes "because I'm a massive fan of history" and asking if they can come as the prophet Muhammed, m
ost of them adult men I am somehow, oddly enough, inclined to doubt are students at this high school.

EDIT: This was meant as a reply to Sue's question, but I guess I'm a tiiiiiiiiiny bit late here.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 01 November 2015, 10:19 PM
TallGeekyGirl's Avatar
TallGeekyGirl TallGeekyGirl is offline
 
Join Date: 31 December 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 12,195
Default In debate over offensive Halloween costumes, where's the line?

Quote:
They're familiar characters in the debate over controversial Halloween costumes: suicide bombers, geishas, gangsta rappers, rednecks and sexy nurses.
Such costumes regularly draw allegations of racism, sexism or insensitivity. But where do fully-clothed folk legends fit in?
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/27/living...hnic-costumes/
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01 November 2015, 10:40 PM
Little Pink Pill's Avatar
Little Pink Pill Little Pink Pill is offline
 
Join Date: 03 September 2005
Location: California
Posts: 7,055
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esprise Me View Post
It troubles me, though, that we've gotten to a place where we're telling kids they can't dress up as people they admire unless those people are of the same race (and perhaps now even the same nationality) as the kid in question. Or maybe it's that no one can dress up as anyone who isn't white.
The thought troubled me, as well. I don't think it's helpful in any context to tell a kid they can't emulate a hero because they're the wrong race. That seems like the opposite of progress. But all the conversations we've had here about belly dancers and Chinese food were also in my head.

For the record, I did let my daughter be Sacajawea, I just told her she needed to announce herself as the historical figure, because dressing up as a generic American Indian could be considered offensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
That makes me wonder where we're drawing the line. Disney has been trying to be more inclusive with their Disney princesses and the like and there is a new cartoon they have on TV called Doc McStuffins where the title character is African American. Would it be ok for little white kids to dress up as Doc McStuffins or as Tiana or Mulan? I don't see why not in any way but is there some reason that I'm not thinking of that would make this a negative thing instead of a positive?
I can see someone taking issue if the (white) child wanted to wear a wig or makeup that made them look more like their character, which is sad, because we're burdening the next generation with the "sins of the fathers."
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01 November 2015, 11:58 PM
ganzfeld's Avatar
ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
Join Date: 05 September 2005
Location: Kyoto, Japan
Posts: 23,569
Default

Even if this is the whole story, there's not much story there. A kid asked if his costume was appropriate for one particular Halloween event. He was told it wasn't. And that's it. There's nothing sinister going on here. He was nice enough to ask but apparently couldn't take 'no' for an answer so you have to wonder why he asked in the first place.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 02 November 2015, 12:13 AM
Esprise Me's Avatar
Esprise Me Esprise Me is offline
 
Join Date: 02 October 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6,779
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
Even if this is the whole story, there's not much story there. A kid asked if his costume was appropriate for one particular Halloween event. He was told it wasn't. And that's it. There's nothing sinister going on here. He was nice enough to ask but apparently couldn't take 'no' for an answer so you have to wonder why he asked in the first place.
Well, no, not exactly. If every part of this story is true--which it may not be--he wasn't merely told it was inappropriate; he was denied permission to wear it. I don't "wonder" why he asked in the first place; it seems perfectly reasonable that he asked because the school made it clear that some students would be denied permission to wear the costumes of their choice, and invited them to seek approval in advance rather than having to change out of it the day of. No, it's not the greatest tragedy to ever befall a student on Halloween, but it's worth talking about. You are free to disagree, but no one's forcing you to participate in the conversation.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 02 November 2015, 12:30 AM
ganzfeld's Avatar
ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
Join Date: 05 September 2005
Location: Kyoto, Japan
Posts: 23,569
Default

So he was denied permission. So what?

There's a difference between saying "this is not an issue" and saying "why are we having this conversation?" I'm saying the former. I'm in the conversation because I want to make the argument that disapproval of a costume is not a serious issue. It wouldn't really matter that much if the school had said something truly unreasonable such as "Star Trek okay but no Star Wars!". It's the school's party and lots of parties have themes. The theme this year is "culture is not a costume". Sounds like a perfectly reasonable rule for a costume party.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 02 November 2015, 12:41 AM
Gutter Monkey's Avatar
Gutter Monkey Gutter Monkey is offline
 
Join Date: 13 December 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,992
Default

I had a similar question a few years ago when I asked whether decorating my house as an Egyptian tomb with spooky mummies was cultural appropriation given that the Pharaonic religion isn't practiced any more (as far as my research shows) so that culture only exists in a historical context. I wasn't sure if modern Egyptians actively identify with the Pharaonic period as part of their culture or whether they just see it as a distant part of history which doesn't really inform their modern lives and in the end I decided not to go ahead with it. In my opinion if you ask yourself "Is this offensive?" and you genuinely can't come up with a solid answer then it's probably better to assume it will offend someone.

(Of course you then have to ask yourself "How much will it offend people?" and "Do I care more if it offends people than I care about wearing the costume?" but that's something everyone has to answer for themselves.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avril View Post
Blackface has such a fraught history that it's impossible to do the "paint yourself darker" thing without being offensive. It's just a question of degree.
After this mariachi costume debate I can see some white people trying to claim "But it's part of my cultural history!" as an excuse for wearing blackface halloween costumes.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 02 November 2015, 12:46 AM
Little Pink Pill's Avatar
Little Pink Pill Little Pink Pill is offline
 
Join Date: 03 September 2005
Location: California
Posts: 7,055
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutter Monkey View Post
Of course you then have to ask yourself "How much will it offend people?" and "Do I care more if it offends people than I care about wearing the costume?" but that's something everyone has to answer for themselves.
What about, "Do I care more if it offends people than I care about telling my child to choose a whiter hero?"
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 02 November 2015, 12:49 AM
Esprise Me's Avatar
Esprise Me Esprise Me is offline
 
Join Date: 02 October 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6,779
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
So he was denied permission. So what?
So why dance around that, then? You wrote that he was merely told it was inappropriate, and you've written before on this subject that such rebukes are of little consequence because no one is actually stopping you from belly dancing or wearing headdresses or whatever. Someone here was actually stopping him. An authority figure was (allegedly) infringing on his choice of expression. That may be justifiable, of course, but sometimes schools deny students their First Amendment rights without adequate justification. You are being rather dismissive.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 02 November 2015, 12:52 AM
Gutter Monkey's Avatar
Gutter Monkey Gutter Monkey is offline
 
Join Date: 13 December 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,992
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Pink Pill View Post
What about, "Do I care more if it offends people than I care about telling my child to choose a whiter hero?"
If your child wants to dress up as a blackfaced pickaninny then yeah, tell your kid to choose something else.
If your child is dressing as a specific historical character for personal reasons then it'd probably still be a good idea to explain to them that some people might be offended and might even yell at them in the street.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 02 November 2015, 01:05 AM
ganzfeld's Avatar
ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
Join Date: 05 September 2005
Location: Kyoto, Japan
Posts: 23,569
Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esprise Me View Post
That may be justifiable, of course, but sometimes schools deny students their First Amendment rights without adequate justification. You are being rather dismissive.
Yes, I think, unless some further evidence is given, there's no reason to think anyone's first amendment rights are at risk - and not only because the US constitution only applies to the US.

If the school has an event, giving rules for the event and upholding them does not constitute a breach of freedom of speech. We've been through this so many times with other issues that I don't see why it's still a question. Freedom of speech doesn't mean one can use someone else's venue to do and say what one pleases.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ontario schools axe Halloween celebration for more inclusive Spirit Day Sue Social Studies 97 22 October 2017 10:29 PM
High school reunion Magdalene Rantidote 37 19 October 2013 11:06 AM
Is an Egyptian mummy halloween costume culturally offensive? Gutter Monkey Social Studies 61 13 August 2013 06:47 AM
Betting on high school football snopes Sports 6 19 April 2009 06:34 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.