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  #181  
Old 28 March 2014, 10:23 PM
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Can anyone even find a news report of a bite by a fake service dog? In all of the reports about how fake service dogs are a big problem, they mention that the fakes could bite someone. One report had a person claim that they've seen one bite someone. But are there actual reports of fake service dogs biting people? It would certainly be newsworthy, and if this is a huge problem, then there should be reports of it happening. I'm specifically talking about a primary report, not anecdotes in stories about the "fake service dog problem."
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  #182  
Old 28 March 2014, 10:23 PM
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If someone who isn't disabled parks in a disabled slot, a disabled person cannot park there. If someone takes a well-behaved dog into a restaurant that is not a service dog....well, what?
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  #183  
Old 28 March 2014, 10:26 PM
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As erwins said, "Someone Is Getting Away With Something".

IOW, nothing really harmful or troublesome.
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  #184  
Old 28 March 2014, 10:28 PM
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I can't remember the last time I saw someone without a placard park in a disabled spot. Years ago it was more of a problem, but there was an awareness raising campaign and fines were raised, and public disapproval became a big deterrent, I think.
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  #185  
Old 28 March 2014, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Winston O'Boogie View Post
I have always assumed that they had to be trained by a professional. Who else would have the knowledge?
It was my impression that at least the first seizure dogs trained the humans, rather than the other way around: that people had no idea that this was something dogs were capable of until the dogs made it obvious.
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  #186  
Old 28 March 2014, 11:38 PM
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That's my understanding as well. Maybe they can be trained, but there are also some who are naturals at it. They would just need the training necessary to let them accompany their person everywhere--basically just very solid obedience training.
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  #187  
Old 29 March 2014, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erwins View Post
Can anyone even find a news report of a bite by a fake service dog? In all of the reports about how fake service dogs are a big problem, they mention that the fakes could bite someone. One report had a person claim that they've seen one bite someone. But are there actual reports of fake service dogs biting people? It would certainly be newsworthy, and if this is a huge problem, then there should be reports of it happening. I'm specifically talking about a primary report, not anecdotes in stories about the "fake service dog problem."
We know that dogs sometimes bite people. Even legit service dogs do it on occasion. (ETA: One more.) Do we really have to prove that fake service dogs are no exception?

There was this story a few years ago about a "service dog in training" biting a child. I don't know whether the dog was "fake" in the sense of being just a pet with no special training, though I ran across a few articles that pointed out that both the dog and the girl it was supposed to be servicing were too young for any reputable service animal program.

Would you be comfortable simply allowing everyone to bring their pets everywhere, at least that particular animal proves itself dangerous?

Last edited by Esprise Me; 29 March 2014 at 01:37 AM.
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  #188  
Old 29 March 2014, 01:31 AM
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The "trust factor" was that a service dog is well trained and necessarily well behaved, not to mention accustomed to crowds, loud noises, potential distractions, etc. Once people started taking any dog anywhere, there's no trust that the dog is at all well behaved. I don't think it necessarily needs to be a fake service dog, but any dog that misbehaves in a public place which would have, otherwise, been dog free. I think that for every time a person asks if a dog is a service dog, we have many cases where they don't ask.

Look, I consider myself an animal lover, but it's the behavior of people which is causing problems here. I do not expect that animal evolution has changed in the last decade or so, that dogs have such horrible and permanently damaging separation anxiety that their owners cannot be without them during, say, a simple shopping trip. There's a sense of entitlement in that - what good reason is there why a person needs to bring their dog as they stroll through the mall or pick up essentials at Home Depot?

I'm quite happy to keep it only to real service animals, and it's not unreasonable to want to keep that rule enforced. I do not trust the way the law is set up with that whole "can't ask any questions" blanket, because it is too ripe for abuse.
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  #189  
Old 29 March 2014, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esprise Me View Post
We know that dogs sometimes bite people. Even legit service dogs do it on occasion. Do we really have to prove that fake service dogs are no exception?
Since it's one of the main harms the advocates of the make 'em prove it position have been citing, yes, I think asking for one instance of a fake service dog biting someone would not be too much to ask. And I think you misunderstand my point. I know dog bite people on a fairly regular basis. A bite situation is one where a fake service dog would likely be outed as such. So if there are "a lot" of people going around misrepresenting their dog as service dogs there should be some news reports of the fakes biting people.

So I don't doubt that if the problem were significant yes, the fake dogs would be biting people and we should be hearing about it.
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  #190  
Old 29 March 2014, 02:11 AM
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But the law isn't "can't ask any questions". You can ask if it is a service animal. Here I think you can also ask what service it performs. What you can't do is demand proof of someone's disability, or ask about their medical issues.
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