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  #1  
Old 06 February 2016, 02:22 PM
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Icon220 Boy ordered to take off Princess Elsa costume during his school's Disney day

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A California middle school is facing backlash after a 13-year-old student was ordered to remove his Princess Elsa costume during a Disney dress-up day.

http://mashable.com/2016/02/06/boy-a.../#KcIOaq.1lsq2


Someone needs to tell that principal to let it go...
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  #2  
Old 06 February 2016, 02:28 PM
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Um, she's Queen Elsa, TYVM.
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  #3  
Old 06 February 2016, 02:44 PM
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I'm guess that the school's Christmas outing was not to a British pantomime!

On a more serious note, if a girl was dressed as a male character was she sent home?
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  #4  
Old 06 February 2016, 04:22 PM
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So essentially we have two versions of events, in one the boy was perceived as showing off and dressing in a way that caused a distraction because other students wanted to take "selfies" with him (as a side note when is a selfie just a picture taken of yourself with friends?) in the other the supervisor and principal are hateful people who are trying to send a message to the LGBT community. If the latter version is the true version then, as Andrew points out, I trust girls dressed in boy costumes were also sent home.
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  #5  
Old 06 February 2016, 04:36 PM
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That usage of selfie makes no sense to me either, but it's getting to be widely used.
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  #6  
Old 06 February 2016, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew of Ware View Post
if a girl was dressed as a male character was she sent home?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
If the latter version is the true version then, as Andrew points out, I trust girls dressed in boy costumes were also sent home.
That wouldn't fix it, of course. It would be wrong in one fewer dimensions; but it would still be wrong.
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  #7  
Old 06 February 2016, 05:04 PM
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At least it would be consistent. It might not prove or disprove whether the issue is an lgbt issue as the students are claiming though now that I think about it. But it would indicate that the boy was being truthful when he claimed he was told "it is not okay for boys to dress like girls or girls to dress like boys." It's not impossible of course but I'd find it surprising that if all the students dressed up that not one girl wore a "boy" costume.
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  #8  
Old 06 February 2016, 06:24 PM
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I don't find the 'His costume was distracting' argument very convincing, either. It's the same argument used to chastise girls whose bodies are judged as 'too sexy' to not be covered over with baggy and unflattering garments.

If somebody's clothing is distracting other pupils, tell the pupils off for being distracted by something as inconsequential as another person's clothing. Birds flying past a window used to distract me in school, but I was told off for focusing on them. They didn't put up blinds so that I would never have the opportunity to see birds.

How difficult would it have been to enforce a 'no taking photos (not selfies!) in the classroom' rule? Presumably that rule exists all of the rest of the non-costume wearing time. If children were taking photos with Elsa-boy during break then they weren't being distracted at all. If they were taking photo's against Elsa-boy's will or knowledge then they need to be reminded about the basic standards of respect when it comes to other people's privacy. But it doesn't seem as if the latter was the case.
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Old 06 February 2016, 06:27 PM
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Regarding selfie, its my understanding that it is a picture not taken by a third party. If I see take a picture of myself and a dozen other people, its a selfie.

Regarding the op, is the boy expressing himself as a member of the LGBT community or dressing as a girl for laughs?
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  #10  
Old 06 February 2016, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachlife! View Post
Regarding the op, is the boy expressing himself as a member of the LGBT community or dressing as a girl for laughs?
Does it matter in this instance? It was a costume day. He could have dressed as Sebastian the crab and been equally as visually interesting.
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Old 06 February 2016, 06:37 PM
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I think it matters because the boy and his school mates are making this an LGBT issue. If the real issue was he was being disruptive and that's why he was told off then trying to make this all about a school being unfair to the LGBT community is wrong on many levels especially with Mom taking to Facebook to make the school look bad. On the other hand if he's telling the truth it's a problem that needs to be addressed.
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  #12  
Old 06 February 2016, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
I think it matters because the boy and his school mates are making this an LGBT issue.
I think it's an LGBT issue because he was punished unfairly for dressing in a way that goes against gender norms. Just like it would be a feminist issue if a girl was punished for wearing a standard-issue school uniform that revealed a larger than average bust size.

The reason why he dressed that way to begin with doesn't seem relevant to me. His punishment is evidence to people who may not conform to gender roles that they're not OK and that they should be punished for distracting others.

He might have thought it was funny to dress as Elsa. But he might have thought it was funny to dress as Sebastian. The fact that one involves cross-dressing and was punished as a consequence is what makes this a LGBT issue, not whether or not he was transgender or non-binary himself.
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  #13  
Old 06 February 2016, 07:16 PM
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The whole "it's a distraction" thing doesn't ring true for me either as it was done during a spirit week themed dressup day. The whole point of those dressup days is to dress in a manor that attracts attention because it's not normal for school.
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  #14  
Old 06 February 2016, 07:24 PM
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If that's the idea of spirit day then calling this boy out for calling attention to himself is pretty stupid but at this point, as is typical with school related issues, we only really have his version of events. It would be helpful before coming to any conclusions to know whether there were other students dressed as characters of the opposite sex that day and whether they were also told they couldn't dress that way.
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  #15  
Old 06 February 2016, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
At least it would be consistent.
Yup. It would be consistently wrong, however.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachlife! View Post
is the boy expressing himself as a member of the LGBT community or dressing as a girl for laughs?
In this circumstance, it doesn't matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
I think it matters because the boy and his school mates are making this an LGBT issue. If the real issue was he was being disruptive and that's why he was told off then trying to make this all about a school being unfair to the LGBT community is wrong on many levels especially with Mom taking to Facebook to make the school look bad. On the other hand if he's telling the truth it's a problem that needs to be addressed.
He doesn't have to be GBT for it to be wrong. Nor does it need to be "an LGBT issue". It's a general human issue.

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Originally Posted by fitz1980 View Post
The whole "it's a distraction" thing doesn't ring true for me either as it was done during a spirit week themed dressup day. The whole point of those dressup days is to dress in a manor that attracts attention because it's not normal for school.
Exactly. It was a Disney-themed spirit day dress-up event. To tell the students that in that sort of play-acting they must never play-act as a member of another gender is an unreasonable limitation. To tell the students that they're supposed to come in costume but to make sure their costumes don't draw attention is just plain absurd.

There is a degree of LGBT issue involved, in that if they get this upset about a kid showing up in a cross-gender costume on a day on which they were specifically told to show up in costumes, they probably get even more upset if somebody shows up in cross-gender clothes on a day that wasn't supposed to involve costumes. But this particular student doesn't have to identify as trans or as a crossdresser, or to have been trying to make a point about LGBTetc issues, in order for the school's reaction to have been wrong.

Not to mention that, if what they were trying to do was not attract attention, that was obviously the wrong way to go about it.
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  #16  
Old 06 February 2016, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post



He doesn't have to be GBT for it to be wrong. Nor does it need to be "an LGBT issue". It's a general human issue..
Only if the general human issue is whether kids get to do whatever they want at school on spirit day and the administration shouldn't intervene. The school is claiming only that "The Principal's action was based upon the need to stop a general disruption to the school environment." If the administration is trying to cover up what was actually said that is one thing, if the boy and by extension his mother are misinterpreting what actually happened then that's quite another.
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  #17  
Old 06 February 2016, 08:32 PM
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The definition of what constitutes a 'general disruption to the school environment' can be unfairly applied.

For instance, it can be applied in a way that makes it seem as though gender non-conformity is disruptive to a school environment.
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  #18  
Old 06 February 2016, 08:42 PM
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It can also apply to a situation where there is so much commotion because of this that students are not learning.

Until I see evidence that shows that this was because, and only because, of the nature of dress, I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon and call for the school administrator's head.
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  #19  
Old 06 February 2016, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
Only if the general human issue is whether kids get to do whatever they want at school on spirit day and the administration shouldn't intervene. .
The general human issue is that people of any gender are entitled to imagine being people of any other gender.

An additional human issue is that, at least in a public school in the USA, students are generally entitled to wear what they feel comfortable in. Restricting this right specifically by gender -- even if each of the supposed two genders is forbidden to dress in whatever clothes the school has arbitrarily decided belongs only to the other -- is not a reasonable restriction. It's an attempt to jam people into boxes.

And, UEL, the attempt to do so is clearly causing more disruption than there would have been if they'd left the whole thing alone; let alone if they'd just told everybody to stop taking pictures and get back to work. (Which, by the way, they could have done without saying anything about 'boys mustn't dress like girls', even though it would not have been letting the students 'do whatever they want.')

thorny -- cis female who wanted, and was forbidden, to wear slacks to school circa 1960 -- locust
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  #20  
Old 06 February 2016, 10:59 PM
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The question that springs to mind for me is whether other students in gender-conforming but otherwise similarly attention-grabbing costumes were also alleged to have been "disruptive." I.e. presumably there were other students in costume that many people wanted photos with - did these other students also get in trouble?
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