snopes.com  

Go Back   snopes.com > Non-UL Chat > Amusement Bark

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 24 April 2014, 06:26 PM
Pinecone's Avatar
Pinecone Pinecone is online now
 
Join Date: 29 January 2008
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posts: 2,625
Default

Ewwww!

Quote:
NFL teams stepped easily into the creepy patriarch role. Today, they enforce expectations for the way their cheerleaders look (according to the suit, the Jills’ guidebook mandates everything from the cheerleaders’ nail polish color to how they clean their vaginas)
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 24 April 2014, 06:34 PM
UEL's Avatar
UEL UEL is offline
 
Join Date: 01 August 2004
Location: Ottawa/Fredericton, Canada
Posts: 9,011
Baseball

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esprise Me View Post
... so I responded in kind.
In other words, sank to his level. So to speak.

Perhaps challenging him on the point would push your message forward rather than get your whole point lumped into the pile of junk posts?

Your posts are usually much better than snark.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 24 April 2014, 06:34 PM
Mickey Blue's Avatar
Mickey Blue Mickey Blue is offline
 
Join Date: 01 February 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 17,571
Default

Well the level she perceived me to be at; it's the 'online chat' version of having somebody bump into you at a bar and turn around and punch them in the jaw rather than finding out if perhaps it was an accident.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esprise Me View Post
Your comment read as sarcastic ("who knew in all the deluge of waitstaff complaining about their allegedly low pay"), so I responded in kind. I don't know why you felt the need to bring up servers in this context, and I know you've been part of enough of those threads to know that actually, yes, many servers are grossly underpaid, though many are not. It was nasty and uncalled-for.
Without getting into the opinion of what is 'enough' pay, no servers that I'm aware of are (legally) paid less than minimum wage (despite it being claimed all the time) and no servers are (legally) required to work for significant amount of time for free.

This does not seem to be true for cheerleading, and while they are arguing it is also illegal but more of a widely known secret in the article, it is interesting to me that a group that is actually almost systematically impacted by this (again per the OP) is not some group of people who work a menial level, unskilled job, but people who work in a skilled profession that is very much in the public eye at the highest level (of their profession).

ETA: And of course, it goes without saying that my comment didn't imply that no other profession has cause for complaint or should be allowed to complain; rather that when I hear "[Profession] is paid $3/hr!" I tend to think waitstaff, because that myth has been around a long time. But not only is the profession not waitstaff, but it's not an unskilled or low-end job at all.

Last edited by Mickey Blue; 24 April 2014 at 06:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 24 April 2014, 11:30 PM
Lainie's Avatar
Lainie Lainie is offline
 
Join Date: 29 August 2005
Location: Suburban Columbus, OH
Posts: 74,217
Default

This article includes an embedded PDF of their manual. How to clean your vagina is item #11 under the heading "General hygiene and lady body maintenance." The whole section is pretty condescending.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 25 April 2014, 12:03 AM
Cervus's Avatar
Cervus Cervus is offline
 
Join Date: 21 October 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 21,042
Default

Does that PDF have one page that isn't full of misspellings and grammatical errors? I don't take table etiquette lessons from someone who doesn't know how to use apostrophes properly.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 25 April 2014, 12:04 AM
mags's Avatar
mags mags is offline
 
Join Date: 23 February 2006
Location: Springboro, OH
Posts: 5,104
Default

I actually found the menstrual advice even more condescending than the "intimate cleaning."
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 25 April 2014, 12:10 AM
Lainie's Avatar
Lainie Lainie is offline
 
Join Date: 29 August 2005
Location: Suburban Columbus, OH
Posts: 74,217
Default

Like I said, the whole section is condescending. They actually explain that bath and kitchen towels should be washed before they start smelling bad.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 25 April 2014, 05:14 PM
Dr. Winston O'Boogie's Avatar
Dr. Winston O'Boogie Dr. Winston O'Boogie is online now
 
Join Date: 23 February 2000
Location: Fox Lake, IL
Posts: 5,167
Default

Quite frankly, I'm surprised (especially for markets like New York) that the cheerleaders aren't part of the stage actors union (or something similar for dancers). I'm sure that the owners / fans / etc. think that $75 for a game is decent money - that's $25/hour! - they don't take into account the rehearsal time. If pro wrestlers can unionize as stunt people, cheerleaders should unionize as dancers.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 25 April 2014, 06:13 PM
Mickey Blue's Avatar
Mickey Blue Mickey Blue is offline
 
Join Date: 01 February 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 17,571
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
Like I said, the whole section is condescending. They actually explain that bath and kitchen towels should be washed before they start smelling bad.

Connie: This is a great dinner, Mrs. Hill.
Peggy: Well, we have your mother to thank for that. She recommended that I stir the macaroni with a spoon. No more burnt hands, Hank!
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 25 April 2014, 06:19 PM
firefighter_raven's Avatar
firefighter_raven firefighter_raven is offline
 
Join Date: 27 September 2008
Location: Bend, OR
Posts: 2,994
Default

I didn't realize that the Buffalo Jills were an independent group and not actually sponsored by the team. So does that have any bearing on them suing the team?
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 25 April 2014, 06:19 PM
jimmy101_again jimmy101_again is offline
 
Join Date: 29 December 2005
Location: Greenwood, IN
Posts: 6,793
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Winston O'Boogie View Post
Quite frankly, I'm surprised (especially for markets like New York) that the cheerleaders aren't part of the stage actors union (or something similar for dancers). I'm sure that the owners / fans / etc. think that $75 for a game is decent money - that's $25/hour! - they don't take into account the rehearsal time. If pro wrestlers can unionize as stunt people, cheerleaders should unionize as dancers.
I think the problem with trying to organize is that the cheerleaders have zero leverage. Several teams have already dropped their cheer squads. If you hold a Pro-wrestling "match" and the wrestlers don't show up you have a problem. If you hold a football game and the cheerleaders don't show up nobody notices.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 25 April 2014, 06:32 PM
Beachlife!'s Avatar
Beachlife! Beachlife! is online now
 
Join Date: 22 June 2001
Location: Lansing, MI
Posts: 28,283
Jolly Roger

Quote:
Originally Posted by firefighter_raven View Post
I didn't realize that the Buffalo Jills were an independent group and not actually sponsored by the team. So does that have any bearing on them suing the team?
That's interesting. Does the team hire the Jills as sideline entertainment then?
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 25 April 2014, 06:36 PM
Mickey Blue's Avatar
Mickey Blue Mickey Blue is offline
 
Join Date: 01 February 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 17,571
Default

Yea, obviously it doesn't impact sexual harassment charges, but when I hired* somebody to cater our wedding I presume I wasn't personally responsible for the business practices of the company itself, such as paying the cook or forcing them to work off the clock.

*Hypothetically, I just hired a husband and wife team to take care of food.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 25 April 2014, 06:55 PM
Jenn's Avatar
Jenn Jenn is offline
 
Join Date: 19 February 2000
Location: Alberta
Posts: 19,477
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
They actually explain that bath and kitchen towels should be washed before they start smelling bad.
I know some people in their 30s and 40s who have yet to learn or be taught this.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 25 April 2014, 07:09 PM
Lainie's Avatar
Lainie Lainie is offline
 
Join Date: 29 August 2005
Location: Suburban Columbus, OH
Posts: 74,217
Default

Yeah, I still don't consider it the job of an employer, let alone a part-time employer, to lecture its employees, in excruciating [and badly written/edited] detail, about every aspect of personal and home maintenance.

I'll give them a pass on the very specific, detailed regulations about dress and grooming at events where they represent the group, and somewhat of a pass on the other appearance-related things, because the job is so much about appearance.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 25 April 2014, 07:22 PM
firefighter_raven's Avatar
firefighter_raven firefighter_raven is offline
 
Join Date: 27 September 2008
Location: Bend, OR
Posts: 2,994
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachlife! View Post
That's interesting. Does the team hire the Jills as sideline entertainment then?
I think so and maybe other PR events but unable to determine exactly.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 25 April 2014, 08:50 PM
Errata's Avatar
Errata Errata is offline
 
Join Date: 02 August 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 13,071
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by she-geek View Post
Cheerleaders aren't absolutely essential to playing sports
Other things that aren't absolutely essential to playing sports? Playing sports. The whole thing is one big frivolity. But people seem to enjoy it, and presumably enough of them like cheerleaders that those are a thing. They should either pay them something halfway reasonable or not have them, not have them in some sort of indentured servitude. There's a ton more unpaid practice time required than paid game, so they're essentially getting paid sub minimum wage. There is so much money flowing at the top level teams that it shouldn't make a difference to pay them a living wage. It's clearly way too intense and serious a committment to pretend it's just some sort of hobby and not a real job.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 25 April 2014, 08:57 PM
Mickey Blue's Avatar
Mickey Blue Mickey Blue is offline
 
Join Date: 01 February 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 17,571
Default

Lets be real, this is nothing like indentured servitude. It's a crappy paying job with lots of crappy issues related to it but for some women it's worth it to.. I guess dance at major events, or have some level of fame, or to use it as a springboard to other more profitable avenues, or whatever.

Nobody forces you to be an NFL cheerleader, and unlike other arguments for people who hold lousy jobs, it's not like you are staying for the pay or benefits in this case.

Now if actual laws are being broken that's a different story, and hopefully it will be further investigated and acted upon, but lets not overstate things.


As to whether or not they are necessary.. I guess it can be debated but bottom line you could have football without cheerleaders, you cannot have football without football players.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 25 April 2014, 08:59 PM
Beachlife!'s Avatar
Beachlife! Beachlife! is online now
 
Join Date: 22 June 2001
Location: Lansing, MI
Posts: 28,283
Default

Is it a job though or a hobby that makes the cheerleaders a little money? What defines a job as a job?

If I get a gig as drummer for a start-up band, do they have to pay me minimum wage for all the hours I put in? If I find a way to make dragon boating pay a modest dividend and then share it with the member of my team do they suddenly become employees?

I am asking because I really don't know at what point that line is crossed.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 25 April 2014, 09:09 PM
Mickey Blue's Avatar
Mickey Blue Mickey Blue is offline
 
Join Date: 01 February 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 17,571
Default

That's a really good question I hadn't considered before; I know I used to work where I volunteered and the rules for doing both were very, very strict in order to separate paid labor and volunteer labor. I don't know the legal specifics, but clearly there is a line between those two that is very specific. You cannot just 'volunteer' at any given job at any given time legally.

I imagine there are similar distinctions between what counts as a job, and what counts as a hobby. I know lots of bars have open mic nights and similar things for bands or comics and so far as I know (from some friends that have done it) they pay either nothing or next to nothing. Even if you don't count the travel and set up time thats still usually at least a few hours of 'work'.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Eating Disorder Orthorexia on the Rise A Turtle Named Mack The Doctor Is In 5 22 January 2016 03:52 PM
Chocolate Toothpaste and the Rise of WTF Flavors snopes The Bad Gastronomer 23 03 March 2014 08:19 AM
Texas judge rules for cheerleaders in Bible banner suit snopes Moot Court 19 14 May 2013 11:07 PM
NFL cheerleaders "Kick Breast Cancer" campaign Jenn Fauxtography 1 13 November 2010 01:04 AM
Holiday suicide rise a myth snopes Medical 1 29 December 2006 06:53 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.