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  #1  
Old 01 January 2010, 08:19 PM
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Baseball Ground rule triple

Comment: NBC just gave the following as a fact. From
http://www.frontrowking.com/baseball...nway_park.html

"The ladder built on the green monster is thirteen feet above the field
and designed to allow the groundskeeper a method to retrieve balls hit
into the netting (which was removed in 2003 as seats were placed where the
net once stood). The ladder still remains and if hit, is the only ground
rule triple in all of Major League Baseball."

But many sites claim that the Fenway ground-rule triple is an urban legend
and that broadcasters are responsible for perpetuating it.
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  #2  
Old 01 January 2010, 08:45 PM
Nick Theodorakis Nick Theodorakis is offline
 
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Googling brings up several sites that refer to a belief that a fly ball striking the ladder on the Green Monster awards the batter a ground rule triple, but most claim it's a legend with no basis in fact.

Quote:
In the early 1900’s, most famously in the 1903 World Series between Boston and Pittsburgh, there was such an overflow of the crowd that officials put a rope around the deepest part of the outfield and allowed fans to stand behind the rope. Any ball that bounced in play and then into the crowd, was ruled a triple.

The ladder on the Green Monster in Fenway Park was once rumored to have been part of the only ground rule which leads to a triple in the majors, however it wasn’t true. A ladder was placed on the monster long ago, before the seats were atop it, to help the grounds crew fix netting that was once there to catch homerun balls. The ladder has only been struck twice during regular game play, and both lead to an inside the park homerun. A picture of the ladder can be seen here.
from:
http://www.groundruletriple.com/2009...le-part-i.html

see also:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/column...rob&id=1794568
mentions it as an untrue legend, but adds that the ladder is in play

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...es-and-quirks/
http://www.american-architecture.inf...ton/BO-004.htm

This site repeats the legend as true:
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/stad...way_park.shtml

Nick
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  #3  
Old 01 January 2010, 08:51 PM
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The Fenway Park ground rules are here: http://mlb.mlb.com/bos/ballpark/groundrules.jsp. There are no rules that award a triple.

erwins
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  #4  
Old 01 January 2010, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erwins View Post
The Fenway Park ground rules are here: http://mlb.mlb.com/bos/ballpark/groundrules.jsp. There are no rules that award a triple.
Not a triple specifically, but there are rules that award two bases.

Theoretically, a batter could hit a ball to left center, reach first while it's in the air, have the ball bounce off the field or the Monster and get hung up in the ladder, and then be awarded two more bases, leaving him on third. Ditto going into the scoreboard. Far more likely, however, is that the batter would be awarded two bases total. It would have to be a pretty wacky play to result in three; granting two bases for the scoreboard, the ladder or the tarp is not common, but it's an often-enough occurrence that most members of RedSox Nation wouldn't have to look it up. Two bases for the bounce into the bullpen or the stands is quite common.

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Last edited by Four Kitties; 01 January 2010 at 09:05 PM.
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  #5  
Old 01 January 2010, 09:02 PM
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Stan The Man Stan The Man is offline
 
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In today's Winter Classic NHL game at Fenway, one of the announcers mentioned the ladder and the ground rule triple as fact.
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  #6  
Old 01 January 2010, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Stan The Man View Post
In today's Winter Classic NHL game at Fenway, one of the announcers mentioned the ladder and the ground rule triple as fact.
I know. That's undoubtedly why we're getting questions about it in January.

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  #7  
Old 01 January 2010, 10:10 PM
LizardWizard LizardWizard is offline
 
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It's not technically a ground rule (but then a typical "ground rule double" isn't really a ground rule either), but a batter is awarded three bases if a fielder deliberately touches a fair ball with his cap, mask, or other part of the uniform, or if he deliberately throws his glove at and touches a fair ball.
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Old 01 January 2010, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LizardWizard View Post
It's not technically a ground rule (but then a typical "ground rule double" isn't really a ground rule either), but a batter is awarded three bases if a fielder deliberately touches a fair ball with his cap, mask, or other part of the uniform, or if he deliberately throws his glove at and touches a fair ball.
That is a rule in all of baseball. Ground rules are rules specific to a particular playing field ("grounds").

I don't know what rules your local team uses; but in MLB a ground rule double is a double resulting from the local ground rules.

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Old 01 January 2010, 11:07 PM
LizardWizard LizardWizard is offline
 
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Yes, I know. That's why I said it's not technically a ground rule. But it's a "ground rule triple" in the same sense that a fair ball bouncing over the fence in fair territory is a "ground rule double." It's always called a ground rule double, even though it's part of the playing rules, not the ground rules.

There are, of course real "ground rule" doubles at most (if not all) fields.
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  #10  
Old 01 January 2010, 11:13 PM
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Baseball

Quote:
Originally Posted by Four Kitties View Post
I don't know what rules your local team uses; but in MLB a ground rule double is a double resulting from the local ground rules.
Technically, yes, but in common usage any batter who ends up on second base as a result of an invocation of rule 6.09(d through h) is typically referred to as having hit a "ground rule double," even when local ground rules were not involved.
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Old 01 January 2010, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by snopes View Post
Technically, yes, but in common usage any batter who ends up on second base as a result of an invocation of rule 6.09(d through h) is typically referred to as having hit a "ground rule double," even when local ground rules were not involved.
Really? Our local guys just call that a double; I've heard it called a ground-rule double when the game is being nationally broadcast, but I don't recall that term being used by Don and Jerry. I certainly may be misremembering, though.

Damn, I miss baseball! Only 40-ish days until pitchers and catchers report.

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Old 01 January 2010, 11:43 PM
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Some people (and perhaps an announcer or two) now say "rule book double" when the ball bounces over the fence. "Fair pole" is becoming more common too.
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Old 01 January 2010, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videoguy View Post
Some people (and perhaps an announcer or two) now say "rule book double" when the ball bounces over the fence. "Fair pole" is becoming more common too.
I hear it called an "automatic double" as well.

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Old 01 January 2010, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videoguy View Post
"Fair pole" is becoming more common too.
That one's just lame. Even though the pole itself may be in fair territory, it's appropriately named because it's the marker that indicates where the division into foul territory begins. That's why the chalk lines down the first- and third-base lines are called "foul lines," not "fair lines."
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Old 02 January 2010, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by snopes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by videoguy View Post
"Fair pole" is becoming more common too.
That one's just lame. Even though the pole itself may be in fair territory, it's appropriately named because it's the marker that indicates where the division into foul territory begins. That's why the chalk lines down the first- and third-base lines are called "foul lines," not "fair lines."
Does any other park name the foul poles, or just Fenway? We have the Pesky Pole down the right field line, and the Fisk Pole on the left.

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Old 02 January 2010, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Four Kitties View Post
Does any other park name the foul poles, or just Fenway? We have the Pesky Pole down the right field line, and the Fisk Pole on the left.
I thought the best-known pole at Fenway was Carl Yastrzemski.
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Old 02 January 2010, 01:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videoguy View Post
Some people (and perhaps an announcer or two) now say "rule book double" when the ball bounces over the fence.
The proper term, I believe, is "two base award."
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  #18  
Old 02 January 2010, 01:53 AM
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I thought the best-known pole at Fenway was Carl Yastrzemski.
But he's not foul.
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  #19  
Old 02 January 2010, 03:22 PM
LizardWizard LizardWizard is offline
 
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Officially, according to Rule 10.06(e), it's just a "two-base hit." But by the rule book, you could call it an award of two bases without liability to be put out.

I agree that calling it a "fair pole" or a "fair line" is just lame. By the same reasoning, the goal posts in football should be called "missed-goal posts."
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Old 02 January 2010, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snopes View Post
Even though the pole itself may be in fair territory, it's appropriately named because it's the marker that indicates where the division into foul territory begins. That's why the chalk lines down the first- and third-base lines are called "foul lines," not "fair lines."
Not that I think "foul pole" is incorrect or anything, but is "fair pole" incorrect? Doesn't the pole also indicate where the division into fair territory begins? Plus, like you say, 100% of it is in fair territory. If it had always been called the "fair pole", would people be saying that the name doesn't make sense?
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