snopes.com  

Go Back   snopes.com > Urban Legends > Politics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 07 September 2008, 05:49 PM
Gibbie's Avatar
Gibbie Gibbie is offline
 
Join Date: 20 February 2000
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 8,514
Default

Actually it's been widely reported that her teleprompter went out during the speech and she completed it using an old draft of her speech on her notes.

Gibbie

eta: And now I'm seeing reports that it didn't. I don't know.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07 September 2008, 10:59 PM
Lainie's Avatar
Lainie Lainie is online now
 
Join Date: 29 August 2005
Location: Suburban Columbus, OH
Posts: 74,585
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RivkahChaya View Post
A little off-topic, but does anyone know who the last president to write his own speeches was?

If I had to guess, my first thought would be FDR, but that's a wild guess, and considering that he was probably prepped more than any previous president, just to give people the impression he could walk, I could be wrong.
JFK wrote his own inaugural address, or at least participated in the writing. The National Archives has a copy of a draft in his handwriting, which I saw at a traveling exhibition here in Columbus. The handwriting is so messy that they posted a transcript of it, except for a few words that even the JFK Library couldn't make out, according to the display notes.

The same display included some writings by Lincoln, who also had terribly messy handwriting -- not surprising, really, given his lack of formal education.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07 September 2008, 11:09 PM
Avril's Avatar
Avril Avril is offline
 
Join Date: 07 August 2002
Location: Princeton, NJ
Posts: 10,547
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
JFK wrote his own inaugural address, or at least participated in the writing. The National Archives has a copy of a draft in his handwriting, which I saw at a traveling exhibition here in Columbus. The handwriting is so messy that they posted a transcript of it, except for a few words that even the JFK Library couldn't make out, according to the display notes.

The same display included some writings by Lincoln, who also had terribly messy handwriting -- not surprising, really, given his lack of formal education.
Formal education doesn't necessarily have much to do with one's penmanship, even long ago. Thomas Jefferson had terrible handwriting; I think George Washington's was beautiful. In other things I've seen, a Revolutionary War era diary of a minimally educated South Carolinian had beautiful writing, if pretty odd spelling in places. From what I can tell, the more education they had the more likely they were to take liberties with their alphabets.

Avril
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07 September 2008, 11:11 PM
RivkahChaya's Avatar
RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
 
Join Date: 14 July 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 12,275
Default

Off-topic again, but my brother is a professional illustrator, and CGI tech, which means he has to produce storyboards. His artwork is beautiful, and he still has the messiest handwriting of anyone I know. His handwriting looks like and elementary schooler's.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07 September 2008, 11:14 PM
Lainie's Avatar
Lainie Lainie is online now
 
Join Date: 29 August 2005
Location: Suburban Columbus, OH
Posts: 74,585
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avril View Post
Formal education doesn't necessarily have much to do with one's penmanship, even long ago. Thomas Jefferson had terrible handwriting; I think George Washington's was beautiful. In other things I've seen, a Revolutionary War era diary of a minimally educated South Carolinian had beautiful writing, if pretty odd spelling in places. From what I can tell, the more education they had the more likely they were to take liberties with their alphabets.

Avril
My mistake, then. I was aware that there was a huge emphasis on penmanship in 19th century elementary schools, something Lincoln would have missed out on.

But surely Washington was an educated man?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 07 September 2008, 11:17 PM
Steve Steve is offline
 
Join Date: 19 October 2002
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 4,906
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post

But surely Washington was an educated man?
He had more education than Lincoln, but not all that much. After age 16 he stopped going to school and became a surveyor.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 07 September 2008, 11:21 PM
Lainie's Avatar
Lainie Lainie is online now
 
Join Date: 29 August 2005
Location: Suburban Columbus, OH
Posts: 74,585
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
He had more education than Lincoln, but not all that much. After age 16 he stopped going to school and became a surveyor.
IIRC, Lincoln only had a a few scattered months of formal schooling. And was 16 all that young to leave school in the 18th century?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 07 September 2008, 11:29 PM
Steve Steve is offline
 
Join Date: 19 October 2002
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 4,906
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
IIRC, Lincoln only had a a few scattered months of formal schooling. And was 16 all that young to leave school in the 18th century?
Yeah, I'm not really sure why I wrote "not all that much". I suppose I was just thinking in comparison to Jefferson who had also been mentioned.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 07 September 2008, 11:35 PM
Ramblin' Dave's Avatar
Ramblin' Dave Ramblin' Dave is offline
 
Join Date: 11 May 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 13,120
Default

Washington is among the eight presidents who had no college education, as is Lincoln. AFAIK both took it upon themselves to self-educate to an impressive degree, though.

I have heard elsewhere that Palin is known for mispronouncing "nuclear" the same way Bush does, and that she uses the typical (but incorrect) pronunciation of Iran and Iraq (eye-ran, eye-rack). Since she has more or less admitted that she doesn't know anything about either country, that's not much of a surprise.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 07 September 2008, 11:58 PM
Little Pink Pill's Avatar
Little Pink Pill Little Pink Pill is offline
 
Join Date: 03 September 2005
Location: California
Posts: 7,055
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramblin' Dave View Post
...she uses the typical (but incorrect) pronunciation of Iran and Iraq (eye-ran, eye-rack). Since she has more or less admitted that she doesn't know anything about either country, that's not much of a surprise.
I'm not touching the nuclear thing (), but the pronunciation of foreign words is debatable. Some feel englifying is incorrect, but linguistically speaking, every language alters the words they adopt, and it isn't technically "wrong" once it has been integrated.

Someone people actually think it sounds odd to not. I had a Hungarian linguistics professor say it drove him crazy when someone would say "BUDA-pesht" (instead of Buda-pest) in the middle of an otherwise English sentence. It's like rolling the 'r' in "I just got back from Costa RRRREEEKA!" or using the proper Hungarian in "I just love Magyaroszagon!" You're actually mixing languages.

I don't know. To one person it's etiquette, to another it's pretension.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 08 September 2008, 12:09 AM
AnglRdr's Avatar
AnglRdr AnglRdr is offline
 
Join Date: 06 June 2002
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 50,681
Default

But "eye-wrack" is always wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 08 September 2008, 12:10 AM
RivkahChaya's Avatar
RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
 
Join Date: 14 July 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 12,275
Default

Has "Iran" ever conventionally been called "Eye-ran," though? I mean, you can forgive someone who still says "Peking," since that was the only word English speakers knew, but before Iran was "Iran," it was Persia.

I associate "Eye-ran" with Central US dialects, where until the hostage thing, lots of people had seen it written but never heard it, and got it wrong when they tried to say it. Palin sounds like she's from Wisconsin or one of the Dakotas, so that may be the way she heard it as a kid. Off hand, I don't know where's she's from originally. Still, I'd expect that if she wants to run for a national office, she can say "Ir-an."

There's no excuse for "new-cue-lar"; it's just wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 08 September 2008, 12:14 AM
Lainie's Avatar
Lainie Lainie is online now
 
Join Date: 29 August 2005
Location: Suburban Columbus, OH
Posts: 74,585
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RivkahChaya View Post
Palin sounds like she's from Wisconsin or one of the Dakotas, so that may be the way she heard it as a kid. Off hand, I don't know where's she's from originally.
She's from Idaho.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 08 September 2008, 07:44 PM
Little Pink Pill's Avatar
Little Pink Pill Little Pink Pill is offline
 
Join Date: 03 September 2005
Location: California
Posts: 7,055
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnglRdr View Post
But "eye-wrack" is always wrong.
It depends on whether you are asking a linguist or a grammarian. A linguist describes how language is, a grammarian prescribes how it should be, telling you what they believe is "right" or "wrong," depending on whether they agree with a majority, minority, or historical usage.

So anything a substantial number of speakers uses is "correct" to me, however it came about, and whether I like it or no. Whether it is considered pejorative, however, is another matter altogether.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RivkahChaya View Post
Has "Iran" ever conventionally been called "Eye-ran," though? I mean, you can forgive someone who still says "Peking," since that was the only word English speakers knew, but before Iran was "Iran," it was Persia.
Isn't "Peking" an example of how a speaker's ear distorts foreign words, though? In comparison to that, "eye-ran" isn't really that bad.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 08 September 2008, 07:47 PM
AnglRdr's Avatar
AnglRdr AnglRdr is offline
 
Join Date: 06 June 2002
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 50,681
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Pink Pill View Post
It depends on whether you are asking a linguist or a grammarian. A linguist describes how language is, a grammarian prescribes how it should be, telling you what they believe is "right" or "wrong," depending on whether they agree with a majority, minority, or historical usage.

So anything a substantial number of speakers uses is "correct" to me, however it came about, and whether I like it or no.
I don't think I agree with that. For example, a substantial number of speakers say "fiftht" when meaning "fifth." "Fiftht" is not correct just because many people mispronounce "fifth."
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 08 September 2008, 08:05 PM
Little Pink Pill's Avatar
Little Pink Pill Little Pink Pill is offline
 
Join Date: 03 September 2005
Location: California
Posts: 7,055
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnglRdr View Post
I don't think I agree with that. For example, a substantial number of speakers say "fiftht" when meaning "fifth." "Fiftht" is not correct just because many people mispronounce "fifth."
It's not standard English usage, but for the group of people who use it, it is technically "correct." Moreover, if enough people start to use it, will eventually show up in things like dictionaries. The current standard pronunciation could fade from use, and leaving off the final "t" could become as obsolete as the "e" in Chaucer's "roote."

I doubt it will happen with that word because we tend to simplify things rather than complicate them, but take the plural "handkerchieves," for example. A few years back, "handkerchiefs" was considered "wrong" by grammarians (and still grates on my ear), but my spellcheck doesn't even highlight it, now. It is becoming standard.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 08 September 2008, 08:09 PM
Mama Duck's Avatar
Mama Duck Mama Duck is offline
 
Join Date: 22 October 2001
Location: South Texas
Posts: 12,151
Default

What is it suppose to be if not "Eye rack" and "Eye Ran"? Seriously, I don't think I've heard another pronunciation. Of course, it's possible that I can't tell the difference.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 08 September 2008, 08:15 PM
Little Pink Pill's Avatar
Little Pink Pill Little Pink Pill is offline
 
Join Date: 03 September 2005
Location: California
Posts: 7,055
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama Duck View Post
What is it suppose to be if not "Eye rack" and "Eye Ran"? Seriously, I don't think I've heard another pronunciation. Of course, it's possible that I can't tell the difference.
Ear-ON is closer to the way Iranians say it. Here is a sample.

Out of curiosity, do the ear-ON people here also say, "ear-ON-ians?" I hear people switch it out with "eye-RAIN-ians" sometimes.

Last edited by Little Pink Pill; 08 September 2008 at 08:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 08 September 2008, 08:15 PM
Avril's Avatar
Avril Avril is offline
 
Join Date: 07 August 2002
Location: Princeton, NJ
Posts: 10,547
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama Duck View Post
What is it suppose to be if not "Eye rack" and "Eye Ran"? Seriously, I don't think I've heard another pronunciation. Of course, it's possible that I can't tell the difference.
Usually, Ear rack and Ear ran. Though I could swear that during Desert Storm all the news broadcasts were using Eye rather than Ear.

Avril
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 08 September 2008, 08:16 PM
AnglRdr's Avatar
AnglRdr AnglRdr is offline
 
Join Date: 06 June 2002
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 50,681
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama Duck View Post
What is it suppose to be if not "Eye rack" and "Eye Ran"? Seriously, I don't think I've heard another pronunciation. Of course, it's possible that I can't tell the difference.
The "I" is short. It is closer to "i-rock".
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.