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  #21  
Old 17 October 2007, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Tarquin Farquart View Post
Then someone writes it all up in the homosexual minutes.
All 69 of them?

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Originally Posted by Dondi View Post
What I meant by this is that I rather not have the school system push stuff like "I Have Two Mommys" and "My Daddy Gets It Up The A**".
I'd rather not have school systems push falsehoods about the glorious myth of the 1950s nuclear family.

Although I must admit that I was unaware Hugh Hefner was writing children's books now.
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  #22  
Old 17 October 2007, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Canuckistan View Post
Although I must admit that I was unaware Hugh Hefner was writing children's books now.
I think that's a Larry Flynt publication.
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  #23  
Old 17 October 2007, 02:28 PM
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Yow!

[very wrong]

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Originally Posted by Cervus View Post
I think that's a Larry Flynt publication.
Which would explain why Jerry Falwell is your daddy!

[/very wrong]
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  #24  
Old 17 October 2007, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Barbara View Post
Granted how I've never seen a book in school titled "My Mom Likes My Dad to Go Down on Her," or "My Dad Likes My Mom to Ride Him Cowboy-Style,"
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is what is wrong with our school system today. Did you know that graduating seniors can only "go down" at a 4th grade level on average?
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  #25  
Old 17 October 2007, 03:02 PM
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Yow!

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Originally Posted by Johnny Slick View Post
Did you know that graduating seniors can only "go down" at a 4th grade level on average?
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  #26  
Old 17 October 2007, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Barbara View Post
Granted how I've never seen a book in school titled "My Mom Likes My Dad to Go Down on Her," or "My Dad Likes My Mom to Ride Him Cowboy-Style," why would you worry that kids would be exposed to something like "My Daddy Gets It Up The A**"?

Sexually-explicit content is sexually-explicit content, no matter which sexes are involved. I suspect children in the California school system will continue to be shielded from it.
Quite frankly, I hope you are right. I don't have any personal qualms with people being gay. But yes, I was being a bit flippant with this ficticious book.

I'm all for education to promote tolerance to prevent forms of harrassment occuring in the public schools. No one should be bullied, put down, or discriminated for who they are. But being tolerant doesn't mean you have to accept the behavior or lifestyle as valid. I prefer to keep morality out of the public classroom altogether. Values and morals ought to be taught at home. Just as you wouldn't want someone to push religious values on your child, neither should you have to expose your child to the acceptance of behavior that opposes your values. To tell my child that it's ok to be gay goes against the religious morals that I as a parent feel right in instilling in my child.

Neither should there be prevention of free speech in the pulpit of churches condemning the homosexual lifestyle/ behavior.
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  #27  
Old 17 October 2007, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Dondi View Post
Quite frankly, I hope you are right. I don't have any personal qualms with people being gay.
Then why the problem with the two mommies book:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dondi View Post
What I meant by this is that I rather not have the school system push stuff like "I Have Two Mommys"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dondi View Post
I prefer to keep morality out of the public classroom altogether.
What does that entail, exactly?

Quote:
Values and morals ought to be taught at home. Just as you wouldn't want someone to push religious values on your child, neither should you have to expose your child to the acceptance of behavior that opposes your values.
So would you have problems with anti-racism programs?

Quote:
To tell my child that it's ok to be gay goes against the religious morals that I as a parent feel right in instilling in my child.
It is certainly your choice to teach your child this. But, once again, it does seem to contradict your original statement at the top of this post.

Quote:
Neither should there be prevention of free speech in the pulpit of churches condemning the homosexual lifestyle/ behavior.
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  #28  
Old 17 October 2007, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Dondi View Post

I'm all for education to promote tolerance to prevent forms of harrassment occuring in the public schools. No one should be bullied, put down, or discriminated for who they are. But being tolerant doesn't mean you have to accept the behavior or lifestyle as valid.
I don't get the distinction here at all. Of course those of us living homosexual "lifestyles" are leading a valid one; we have our lives to demonstrate its validity.

Quote:
I prefer to keep morality out of the public classroom altogether. Values and morals ought to be taught at home.
That is impossible to do. Teaching children not to pick on those weaker than them is morality. Teaching children to help others is morality.

Quote:
Just as you wouldn't want someone to push religious values on your child, neither should you have to expose your child to the acceptance of behavior that opposes your values.
I disagree with this. Nobody would argue that it is okay to teach children that it is wrong to be racist, even if that child is being raised by racist parents.

Quote:
To tell my child that it's ok to be gay goes against the religious morals that I as a parent feel right in instilling in my child.
It is against *your* religious morals; it is not against my religious morals, however.

Quote:
Neither should there be prevention of free speech in the pulpit of churches condemning the homosexual lifestyle/ behavior.
And this is happening in what universe?
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  #29  
Old 17 October 2007, 03:16 PM
Ryda Wong, EBfCo. Ryda Wong, EBfCo. is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Dondi View Post
Just as you wouldn't want someone to push religious values on your child, neither should you have to expose your child to the acceptance of behavior that opposes your values.
Yeah. I call bull on that one.

A. It isn't behavior. It's being, identity.

B. Sorry, but if Mr. Racist Dude firmly believes that black people are apes and deserve to be boiled alive or that all Jews need to go to the ovens now, I'm perfectly fine with the public school teaching that racists are bad and all races are equal. Same thing with Mr. Homophobic Dude who thinks that all people that fall under the banner of queer are sick. If he don't like it, he can enroll his kid in a school that teaches that kind of bigotry and pay for it. There's plently of schools like that.

But there is no reason we, as a society, have to accept bigotry of any kind. There is also no reason that we, as a society, can't teach that one kind of legal lifestyles are as acceptable and as valid as any other kind of legal lifestyle.



As for this?

Quote:
Neither should there be prevention of free speech in the pulpit of churches condemning the homosexual lifestyle/ behavior.

Have you been reading too much WND and Focus on teh Family
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  #30  
Old 17 October 2007, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dondi
But being tolerant doesn't mean you have to accept the behavior or lifestyle as valid.
What does "valid" mean in this context? at what point does teaching tolerance slip into teaching something is "valid"?

Quote:
I prefer to keep morality out of the public classroom altogether. Values and morals ought to be taught at home.
See, I disagree on this. I think the public exchange of ideas and willingness to discuss and debate certain issues is vital to society. as such, I have no problem discussing the values and morals of a particular issue.

and again - where does this end? some would put creationism into this discussion, with the idea of a creator god being the central point of their moral system. should we avoid teaching anything about the big bang, evolution, archaeology, etc. for that reason?

Quote:
Just as you wouldn't want someone to push religious values on your child, neither should you have to expose your child to the acceptance of behavior that opposes your values.
Oh balls.

again, creationism. or racism for that matter.

Quote:
To tell my child that it's ok to be gay goes against the religious morals that I as a parent feel right in instilling in my child.
telling my children the holocaust happened goes against the political view that I as a parent feel right in instilling my child.

Quote:
Neither should there be prevention of free speech in the pulpit of churches condemning the homosexual lifestyle/ behavior.
...and that has to do with this how, exactly?
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  #31  
Old 17 October 2007, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Dondi View Post
Neither should there be prevention of free speech in the pulpit of churches condemning the homosexual lifestyle/ behavior.
And there hasn't been, unless you've stumbled across the ENDA with no reading comprehension whatsoever. Stop changing the subject. Not all education is brainwashing, and the OP is clearly making things up and not reporting reality even if it was. No one is saying you can't personally tell your kids to hate gays (Or, you know, just not approve of their 'lifestyle'. Adorable code there.), just that public schools in California can't do it. Surely that still leaves you perfectly free to tell your kids what they should really believe?
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  #32  
Old 17 October 2007, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Lancastrian View Post
And there hasn't been, unless you've stumbled across the ENDA with no reading comprehension whatsoever. Stop changing the subject. Not all education is brainwashing, and the OP is clearly making things up and not reporting reality even if it was. No one is saying you can't personally tell your kids to hate gays (Or, you know, just not approve of their 'lifestyle'. Adorable code there.), just that public schools in California can't do it. Surely that still leaves you perfectly free to tell your kids what they should really believe?
This always ticks me off. Why do gay people get a lifestyle, and DW and I only get a life? This is discrimination, and darn it, we are going to sue.
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  #33  
Old 17 October 2007, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by dfresh View Post
This always ticks me off. Why do gay people get a lifestyle, and DW and I only get a life? This is discrimination, and darn it, we are going to sue.
First piece of evidence at the trial: The Homosexual Agenda.
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  #34  
Old 17 October 2007, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Canuckistan View Post
First piece of evidence at the trial: The Homosexual Agenda.
And the homosexual buscuits.
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  #35  
Old 17 October 2007, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Canuckistan View Post
First piece of evidence at the trial: The Homosexual Agenda.
Is shopping included on this agenda? Will we have time to bake cookies?
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  #36  
Old 17 October 2007, 04:47 PM
Ryda Wong, EBfCo. Ryda Wong, EBfCo. is offline
 
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Sorry, but the Gay agenda has been lost...
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  #37  
Old 17 October 2007, 04:54 PM
Dr. Dave Dr. Dave is offline
 
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Originally Posted by dfresh View Post
This always ticks me off. Why do gay people get a lifestyle, and DW and I only get a life?
You get a life? Man, at this point DW and I are just living, but we have no life
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  #38  
Old 17 October 2007, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Dave View Post
You get a life? Man, at this point DW and I are just living, but we have no life
You guys are LIVING? I'm not even doing that. Sigh. I'm a zombie.
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  #39  
Old 17 October 2007, 05:09 PM
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The problem with morality being taught in schools is that everyone has a different idea of what morality entails, as evident in many of the posts in this thread. Perhaps I ought to reinterate.

Morality taught in schools ought to be related the situational ethics that pertain to the school environment, i.e. racial and homosexual tolerance, elimination of harassment and bullying, prevention of violence in the schools, classroom behavior, and academic expectations and aspirations. You know, stuff that deals with school.

But I think a line is crossed if we are forcing our children to believe that homosexual behavior is ok. Or that if the OP has a legitimate point, that certain language traditionally used in the description of parents (i.e. "Mom" or "Dad") can no longer be used for it hurts the sensibilities of those not in a traditional family. (I don't believe the new bill says or implies that, but just supposing it did).

Your idea of a traditional family may differ from mine. You might think a traditional family now involves two lesbian parents or two gay parents. Thats fine, but don't make that an issue in the public school. That's the kind of morality that I'm talking about that should be taught at home.

We need to stick to what's common. To the morality in it's proper place that we can all agree upon.

Am I being a bigot because I think homosexuality is wrong? Or am I just adhering to my convictions? Should I change my convictions just to be "politically correct"?

The homosexual issue is different than the racial issue because homosexuality is based on a certain social behavior, not a genetic inheritance. It is the acceptance of the behavior, not the people themselves that I have problems with.
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  #40  
Old 17 October 2007, 05:26 PM
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How do you teach tolerence towards homosexuals without saying it's okay to be homosexual? "This is Bob, he's gay, and that makes him thoroughly disgusting and loathsome. However you should still be nice to him?" Or how do you teach the kids not to tease little Joe because he's got two mummies, or no daddy or...

Even the source article doesn't claim that mentioning the traditional family is the intent or the scope of the proposed legislation - though they've buried that somewhere near the bottom. All it intends to do is broaden the scope of the curriculum to expose children to the stark fact that there are other types of family too.

I'm not knoecking your convictions, but how does the existence of gay people, or childrens knowledge that they do exist affect you in any way, shape or form? Yeah I'm bigoted against robbers, thieves and muggers because they could have a negative impact on my life. Gay people - I can't think of one impact they've had on my life simply because they are gay.
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