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  #101  
Old 30 July 2007, 02:26 PM
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Lainie Lainie is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Silas Sparkhammer View Post
As a rock-ribbed, copper-bottomed, fourteen-karat, dyed-in-the-wool, born-again atheist, I celebrate Christmas!

(I'm one of the very few people I know who really likes fruitcake!)

Silas
I love fruitcake! So do my mother and brothers.

And in my household, we celebrate Christmas, Hanukkah, and the Solstice. DD calls is Chrisolstukkah.
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  #102  
Old 30 July 2007, 02:45 PM
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Avril Avril is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Johnny Slick View Post
Um, I hate to break this to you, but it did.
So says you. You believe a certain group of scholars; others believe other scholars.

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Except that there are multitudes of people who believe that the 25th of December really is Christ's birthday. Whether you believe that or not is besides the point.
You're going to have to provide a cite for these supposed multitudes, Johnny. I've never met anyone who believed December 25 was the actual birthday of Jesus.

Avril
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  #103  
Old 30 July 2007, 08:06 PM
Jonny T
 
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Um, I hate to break this to you, but it did. It's syncretism and it's fairly common, especially with religion. That being said, you're reading the "look at the silly godsuckers" bit into this yourself.
You're not "breaking" anything to me. And while Christianity may have adapted pre-existing festivals and symbolism for the external appearance, that's about as far as it goes. If you weren't getting at anything more than that then fair enough.

Quote:
Except that there are multitudes of people who believe that the 25th of December really is Christ's birthday. Whether you believe that or not is besides the point.
Really? Multitudes? Like who?

Last edited by Jonny T; 30 July 2007 at 08:08 PM. Reason: removed justified snark that would get me in trouble
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  #104  
Old 13 August 2007, 05:47 PM
bvargas
 
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Originally Posted by snopes View Post
Political Correctness: Seems the ACLU couldn't care less that a San Diego public school has set aside 15 minutes of classroom instruction time for Muslim students to pray, while non-Muslims twiddle their thumbs.


Right now it has no plans to legally challenge the budding madrassa as endorsement of a religion by government. Apparently the establishment clause only applies to the practice of Judeo-Christian rituals in public places.

The special accommodations for Carver Elementary's nearly 100 Somali Muslims don't stop with organized prayer. The school cafeteria has banned pork and
other foods that conflict with the Islamic diet.

And the K-8 school has even added Arabic the language of the Quran to its curriculum, while segregating classes for girls, a la the Taliban.



In effect, Carver administrators have carved out a school within a school expressly for Muslims, elevating them above Christian and Jewish students.
They've had 15 minutes of instruction time taken away from them, so Muslims can roll out their pray mats.

It amounts to a special privilege afforded a specific religion, which plainly does not have our best interests at heart. That same privilege is not extended to other faiths that are part of our traditional culture and do not wish us ill or pray for the demise of our system of government.

Tough, say Muslim-rights groups. The Council on American-Islamic Relations, which is defending the Carver program, insists public schools must cater to the growing number of Muslim students. "Our country is transforming
demographically, religiously," said the spokesman for CAIR's San Diego chapter. "Our country has to now accommodate things that are not traditionally accounted for before."

But when does accommodation become promotion?

In California's brave new schools, Johnny has been forced to recite the Quran along with Ahmed.

Seventh-graders at a San Francisco-area school were required, even after 9/11, to "become Muslims" for two full weeks as part of California's world history curriculum.

This included reciting the Muslim profession of faith
"Allah is the only true God and Muhammad is his messenger" and chanting "Praise be to Allah" in response to teacher prompts.

Parents naturally were outraged that teachers would be shoving Islamic beliefs down their children's throats.

And some of them sued the school district, only to lose in federal court. They appealed, but the ultra-liberal 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals out of San Francisco ruled
that such Islamic catechism is constitutional.

There's a stealth jihad under way in our schools, and school officials, wittingly or not, are aiding it. The ACLU, which operates from a double standard, refuses to step in. That leaves it up to parents to stand up and insist that the purpose of our tax-supported public schools is to educate
our children in English as Americans.

If Muslims want to spend class time bowing and praying to Allah and learning in Arabic, they have the right and the freedom to attend private Islamic schools.
Maybe before attacking the ACLU for inaction, you should have checked your facts. Their website (www.aclusandiego.org) describes actions they took (not every issue or instance requires courtroom action) and recent news reports indicate that the matter was resolved in a constitutional and efficient manner. Their web stories indicate that they had serious concerns with the accommodations being made, just as they might if a different faith was involved. To say that "the ACLU refuses to step in" is absolutely inaccurate--that is, a lie. Your readers should expect a higher standard of reporting from this page.
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  #105  
Old 13 August 2007, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bvargas View Post
To say that "the ACLU refuses to step in" is absolutely inaccurate -- that is, a lie. Your readers should expect a higher standard of reporting from this page.
Actually, we expect a higher standard of cluefulness from our message board participants.

- snopes
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  #106  
Old 13 August 2007, 06:03 PM
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Silas Sparkhammer Silas Sparkhammer is offline
 
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Originally Posted by snopes View Post
Actually, we expect a higher standard of cluefulness from our message board participants.
I'm a bit confused myself... The San Diego ACLU's own web site does seem to indicate that they took some effort to contact the school and other regulatory agencies to indicate their concern.

Silas (2005 runner-up for Mr. Clueless, southern California)
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  #107  
Old 13 August 2007, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Avril View Post
I've never met anyone who believed December 25 was the actual birthday of Jesus.
I don't know about multitudes, and anecdotes being what they are, but I used to know people in the Pentecostal church who were absolutely floored when they found out that Dec. 25 wasn't Jesus' birthday. It isn't impossible. I suspect that those who haven't really thought about it would believe that it was, simply because, well, celebrations happen that day.

Like I said, completely anecdotal. No stats, sorry.
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  #108  
Old 13 August 2007, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Silas Sparkhammer View Post
I'm a bit confused myself... The San Diego ACLU's own web site does seem to indicate that they took some effort to contact the school and other regulatory agencies to indicate their concern.
I suspect that what snopes is referring to is that bvargas seems to think that snopes himself wrote the OP. Which, of course, he didn't; he just posted it here for comment.

Quote:
Silas (2005 runner-up for Mr. Clueless, southern California)
There's a joke about a bikini contest somewhere in there ...
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  #109  
Old 14 August 2007, 02:45 AM
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Johnny Slick Johnny Slick is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Silas Sparkhammer View Post
I'm a bit confused myself... The San Diego ACLU's own web site does seem to indicate that they took some effort to contact the school and other regulatory agencies to indicate their concern.

Silas (2005 runner-up for Mr. Clueless, southern California)
Ah, jeez. Are we going to start handing out cookies again?

Johnny "And you said you were an atheist!" Slick
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  #110  
Old 14 August 2007, 01:01 PM
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htonl htonl is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuckistan View Post
I suspect that what snopes is referring to is that bvargas seems to think that snopes himself wrote the OP. Which, of course, he didn't; he just posted it here for comment.
To be fair, snopes didn't post it either with "Comment:" at the beginning or in a quote box or with a link to an original source. While I certainly didn't think it was snopes' own opinion, I can understand a newbie getting confused by it.

Last edited by htonl; 14 August 2007 at 01:02 PM. Reason: add missing quote close tag
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