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Old 27 July 2007, 03:08 AM
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ACLU supports accommodation of Muslims in public schools

Political Correctness: Seems the ACLU couldn't care less that a San Diego public school has set aside 15 minutes of classroom instruction time for Muslim students to pray, while non-Muslims twiddle their thumbs.


Right now it has no plans to legally challenge the budding madrassa as endorsement of a religion by government. Apparently the establishment clause only applies to the practice of Judeo-Christian rituals in public places.

The special accommodations for Carver Elementary's nearly 100 Somali Muslims don't stop with organized prayer. The school cafeteria has banned pork and
other foods that conflict with the Islamic diet.

And the K-8 school has even added Arabic the language of the Quran to its curriculum, while segregating classes for girls, a la the Taliban.



In effect, Carver administrators have carved out a school within a school expressly for Muslims, elevating them above Christian and Jewish students.
They've had 15 minutes of instruction time taken away from them, so Muslims can roll out their pray mats.

It amounts to a special privilege afforded a specific religion, which plainly does not have our best interests at heart. That same privilege is not extended to other faiths that are part of our traditional culture and do not wish us ill or pray for the demise of our system of government.

Tough, say Muslim-rights groups. The Council on American-Islamic Relations, which is defending the Carver program, insists public schools must cater to the growing number of Muslim students. "Our country is transforming
demographically, religiously," said the spokesman for CAIR's San Diego chapter. "Our country has to now accommodate things that are not traditionally accounted for before."

But when does accommodation become promotion?

In California's brave new schools, Johnny has been forced to recite the Quran along with Ahmed.

Seventh-graders at a San Francisco-area school were required, even after 9/11, to "become Muslims" for two full weeks as part of California's world history curriculum.

This included reciting the Muslim profession of faith
"Allah is the only true God and Muhammad is his messenger" and chanting "Praise be to Allah" in response to teacher prompts.

Parents naturally were outraged that teachers would be shoving Islamic beliefs down their children's throats.

And some of them sued the school district, only to lose in federal court. They appealed, but the ultra-liberal 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals out of San Francisco ruled
that such Islamic catechism is constitutional.

There's a stealth jihad under way in our schools, and school officials, wittingly or not, are aiding it. The ACLU, which operates from a double standard, refuses to step in. That leaves it up to parents to stand up and insist that the purpose of our tax-supported public schools is to educate
our children in English as Americans.

If Muslims want to spend class time bowing and praying to Allah and learning in Arabic, they have the right and the freedom to attend private Islamic schools.
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Old 27 July 2007, 03:16 AM
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From the Christian Science Monitor:

Quote:
For now, about 100 students in the Arabic language program at Carver Elementary School are finishing their first year under a daily schedule that gives them a 15-minute recess period in the afternoon, about an hour after lunch. Many of the students are Muslim and transferred from an Arabic-language charter school that folded. Carver Elementary revised its schedule so the students would have the option to pray at the specific times ordained by their religion, says attorney Brent North, who represents the school district. A teacher is present to watch the praying children but cannot lead or take part in the observance.
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Old 27 July 2007, 04:24 AM
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Yeah, and it's just coincidence that public schools don't have class on Sundays. That has nothing to do with accomodating long-standing Judeo-Christian traditions....

--Logoboros
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Old 27 July 2007, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Logoboros View Post
Yeah, and it's just coincidence that public schools don't have class on Sundays. That has nothing to do with accomodating long-standing Judeo-Christian traditions....

--Logoboros
Yeah, or at Christmas, or Easter...
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Old 27 July 2007, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Yeah, or at Christmas, or Easter...
Hey, don't taint the sanctitiy of Christmas by involving Christ in it! Christmas is about presents!
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Old 27 July 2007, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logoboros View Post
Yeah, and it's just coincidence that public schools don't have class on Sundays. That has nothing to do with accomodating long-standing Judeo-Christian traditions....

--Logoboros
Actually, the fact that most public schools don't have classes on Saturday and Sunday is what accomodates the long-standing Judeo-Christian tradition. (Jews observe their Sabbath from sundown on Friday night until sundown Saturday night. Also, it should be noted that Seventh Day Adventists observe their Sabbath day on Saturday; it seems that I recal there are a few smaller Christian denominations which recognize Saturday as the Sabbath as well. Fundie Christians could point out the fact that since schools close on Saturday that only Christian tradition is not being accomodated--even though the Fundies didn't give the "Judeo" part an iota of interest until it suited their POLITICAL interests.)
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Old 27 July 2007, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Seventh-graders at a San Francisco-area school were required, even after 9/11, to "become Muslims" for two full weeks as part of California's world history curriculum.
And there was me thinking Islam had been banned after 9/11...
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  #8  
Old 27 July 2007, 07:38 AM
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From the article:
The special accommodations for Carver Elementary's nearly 100 Somali Muslims don't stop with organized prayer. The school cafeteria has banned pork and
other foods that conflict with the Islamic diet.



Well, since pork ALSO conflicts with a JEWISH diet, I don't really see the concern. Actually, as most foods that are prohibited under Islam are also prohibited under Judaism, this just further highlights the rampant anti-Islamism so popular with the radical right-wing.


In effect, Carver administrators have carved out a school within a school expressly for Muslims, elevating them above Christian and Jewish students.
They've had 15 minutes of instruction time taken away from them, so Muslims can roll out their pray mats.

It amounts to a special privilege afforded a specific religion, which plainly does not have our best interests at heart. That same privilege is not extended to other faiths that are part of our traditional culture and do not wish us ill or pray for the demise of our system of government.




In California's brave new schools, Johnny has been forced to recite the Quran along with Ahmed.

Seventh-graders at a San Francisco-area school were required, even after 9/11, to "become Muslims" for two full weeks as part of California's world history curriculum.

This included reciting the Muslim profession of faith
"Allah is the only true God and Muhammad is his messenger" and chanting "Praise be to Allah" in response to teacher prompts.

Parents naturally were outraged that teachers would be shoving Islamic beliefs down their children's throats.



So, what's the REAL problem? For the last quarter-century, we've had to endure the right-wing fundie Christian attempts to force THEIR prayers on public school students to the complete exclusion of NON-Christians, so now they (and their radical right-wing anti-Muslim supporters) get peeved that a NON-Christian religion gets what THEY couldn't? Somehow, I just can't build up any sympathy for their hurt feelings. (Incidentally, I would like to have had a source for the original post. As it's written, it doesn't seem to have come from the "Liberal Media", but rather some extremist right-wing trash rag.)


There's a stealth jihad under way in our schools, and school officials, wittingly or not, are aiding it. The ACLU, which operates from a double standard, refuses to step in. That leaves it up to parents to stand up and insist that the purpose of our tax-supported public schools is to educate
our children in English as Americans.

If Muslims want to spend class time bowing and praying to Allah and learning in Arabic, they have the right and the freedom to attend private Islamic schools.


I might need to check the ACLJ's take on this. (In brief, the ACLJ is ostensibly a "Christian" version of the ACLU, although the group professes to support all religious freedoms under "attack". Nearly any "Christian" who claims to be the victim of discrimination--such as valedictorians who've had their speeches "cleansed" of religious comments--can get the ACLJ. IMS, the ACLJ has backed a few Jewish students and/or employees in cases.)
As there isn't a source referenced here, the article's claim about the purpose being "to educate our children in English as Americans" seems to stretch reality. I don't see how the other points in the article (as posted) connect to educating "in English as Americans" (there are actually Americans who are Muslims, and a lot of Americans speak languages other than English).
As to the last paragraph, again, for the past quarter-century fundie Christians have been trying to get their prayers in the public schools (under a wiiiiiide variety of guises--a fancy word for "stealth") but for some reason, the "attend private Christian schools" hasn't been a good enough option for *them*. (Not to mention, those who do go that route have spent most of the past 20 years trying to get the government to pay for it as well--through things like "voucher programs".)
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Old 27 July 2007, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaRainbow View Post

Well, since pork ALSO conflicts with a JEWISH diet, I don't really see the concern.
I sincerely doubt the author of the item quoted in the OP knows that. When people like that say "Judeo-Christian," nine times out of ten they really mean just "Christian".
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  #10  
Old 27 July 2007, 11:35 AM
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Christmas, Easter... are christian celebrations, but are also secular holidays. That's not a question of religion, but of cultural tradition.

The question about religion in public school is a difficult one. Answers may vary from country to country, from region to region.
And with the apparition, with immigration, of new religions, the issue has become even more complex.

How to demonstrate tolerance toward these new religions without hurting secularism or encouraging sectarism ?
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  #11  
Old 27 July 2007, 11:44 AM
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Here's a similar article culled from USA Today.

Quote:
At George Mason University, non-Muslim students were asked to observe Muslim rules in the prayer area, such as keeping men on one side and women on the other and removing their shoes, according to Broadside, the school newspaper. Alissa Karton, assistant to the vice president for student life, said the article prompted the school to order students to roll up prayer rugs when not in use and move the dividers.
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Old 27 July 2007, 12:21 PM
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I don't see what the big deal is about not serving pork. Xtians aren't required to eat pork. If it's important to you that your child eat pork, give him some bacon for breakfast, or serve her sausage for dinner.
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Old 27 July 2007, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
I don't see what the big deal is about not serving pork. Xtians aren't required to eat pork. If it's important to you that your child eat pork, give him some bacon for breakfast, or serve her sausage for dinner.
I'm fairly sure I know some Christians that firmly believe "Thou shalt have bacon. Lots of it." is one of the 10 Commandments.
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Old 27 July 2007, 12:50 PM
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The thing that gets me, in hambubba's article, is why universities should feel compelled to provide special facilities for Muslims to wash their feet. Why can't each Muslim go to the dollar store and buy a dishpan to wash her feet in?

Nonny
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Old 27 July 2007, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaRainbow View Post
From the article:
The special accommodations for Carver Elementary's nearly 100 Somali Muslims don't stop with organized prayer. The school cafeteria has banned pork and
other foods that conflict with the Islamic diet.



Well, since pork ALSO conflicts with a JEWISH diet, I don't really see the concern. Actually, as most foods that are prohibited under Islam are also prohibited under Judaism, this just further highlights the rampant anti-Islamism so popular with the radical right-wing.
Actually, I can see the concern. There is clearly a difference between offering halal options (which, by the way, are not kosher for observant Jews unless vegetarian given rules about kosher slaughter) and making everyone keep halal. But I've never heard of predominately Jewish district making everyone keep kosher or eat kosher lunches. They're making everyone eat halal foods for lunch. Everything kosher is halal, so if they were interested in keeping a religiously-friendly diet, it should be kosher, not merely halal.

Avril
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  #16  
Old 27 July 2007, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitap View Post
I'm fairly sure I know some Christians that firmly believe "Thou shalt have bacon. Lots of it." is one of the 10 Commandments.
That sure is true down here in the South.....
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  #17  
Old 27 July 2007, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaRainbow View Post
So, what's the REAL problem? For the last quarter-century, we've had to endure the right-wing fundie Christian attempts to force THEIR prayers on public school students to the complete exclusion of NON-Christians, so now they (and their radical right-wing anti-Muslim supporters) get peeved that a NON-Christian religion gets what THEY couldn't?
So it's not okay to do "right-wing fundie Christian" things but okay to do Muslim things? How is that not hypocritical?

"I'm gonna fight those Christians but let the Muslims have what they want...."
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  #18  
Old 27 July 2007, 02:57 PM
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No Doug, that's "how do YOU like it now?" It doesn't address the issue, just the poster's apparent antagonism toward Christianity, while ignoring the fact that Islam is a religion, apparently.
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Old 27 July 2007, 03:26 PM
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If you ask me, the three big ones are the same religion! just 3 differrent ways of praying
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  #20  
Old 27 July 2007, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Jay View Post
If you ask me, the three big ones are the same religion! just 3 differrent ways of praying
They do worship the same God.
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