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  #41  
Old 15 August 2007, 02:40 AM
Elkhound Elkhound is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Aimee Evilpixie View Post
They walk down the street and find a guy with a Mason's ring on.

Duh.
If you will look at the context of where I originally talked about that--aside from the propriety of bringing up something from a totally unrelated thread--I never said that a person should walk up to a random Mason and ask for random help.

In the original context, it was pointed out that the poster was connected to a child who was offered treatment in one of the Shriners' hospital, but that they had no way to transport the child there. I pointed out that local Masonic and Co-Masonic groups did organize transport for Shriners' patients, but that we only offered this to families who asked for it; families who did not ask, we assumed to be OK. We don't go offering our service to people who don't ask for it; we consider that to be officious and intrusive.

I also, in another discussion, talked about the Knights Templar Eye Foundation; anyone who needs sight-saving surgical treatment can apply through the local Commandery. I said that if you don't know a Templar personally, you can ask any Mason; if he isn't a Templar himself, he would probably know someone who is. I also said that if you didn't know a Mason personally you could approach any man who displayed the Square & Compasses.

Some other posters took this to mean that one should go up on the streets to random Masons to ask them for help for whatever their problems might be. That was not what I said, that was not what I meant, and I have several times said that although at one time I did think that expansion of fraternal, church, and other voluntary charitable endevours could take the place of a universal health care system, I have changed my mind on that point. It is therefore improper to throw a position which I have explicitly disclamed back in my face.

Taking a statement that someone has made out of context and twisting it to mean something that the original writer never meant is a very low, unfair, and unworthy trick.
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  #42  
Old 15 August 2007, 02:42 AM
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Lainie Lainie is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Elkhound View Post
Perhaps not. But, depending on one's circumstances, it might not necessarily be worse.
If it's no better, what's the point?
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  #43  
Old 15 August 2007, 02:45 AM
Elkhound Elkhound is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
If it's no better, what's the point?
It is at least different. And until you try, how do you know that it won't be better?
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  #44  
Old 15 August 2007, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Elkhound View Post
It is at least different. And until you try, how do you know that it won't be better?
How do they know it won't be worse?

We're talking about people with very few resources. If they've actually managed to save up a few bucks, should they use it to wager that the next place they go might be better? What happens if it is, in fact, worse?
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  #45  
Old 15 August 2007, 03:28 AM
Elkhound Elkhound is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
How do they know it won't be worse?

We're talking about people with very few resources. If they've actually managed to save up a few bucks, should they use it to wager that the next place they go might be better? What happens if it is, in fact, worse?
Well, it worked for my ancestors, who scrimped and saved to leave the Old Country and come to America. Our entire history is filled with accounts of people who left where they were with little more than the clothing on their backs and crossed the oceans or the praries or the mountains in search of something better. And, the fact that we, their descendants, are here shows that they found it. If it was done before, it can be done again.
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  #46  
Old 15 August 2007, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Elkhound View Post
Well, it worked for my ancestors, who scrimped and saved to leave the Old Country and come to America. Our entire history is filled with accounts of people who left where they were with little more than the clothing on their backs and crossed the oceans or the praries or the mountains in search of something better. And, the fact that we, their descendants, are here shows that they found it. If it was done before, it can be done again.
How often did your ancestors do it? Because the people in the OP have already done it once.

And when they get to the next place, and it's no better, and they need help, will they get the same response they've gotten here?
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  #47  
Old 16 August 2007, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Elkhound View Post
Well, it worked for my ancestors, who scrimped and saved to leave the Old Country and come to America. Our entire history is filled with accounts of people who left where they were with little more than the clothing on their backs and crossed the oceans or the praries or the mountains in search of something better. And, the fact that we, their descendants, are here shows that they found it. If it was done before, it can be done again.
What about those whose descendants aren't here, because they didn't find it?
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  #48  
Old 16 August 2007, 08:46 PM
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Simply Madeline Simply Madeline is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Elkhound View Post
Well, it worked for my ancestors, who scrimped and saved to leave the Old Country and come to America.
You mean scrimped, saved, and planned? They weren't driven out of their homes by a cataclysmic event?
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  #49  
Old 16 August 2007, 09:15 PM
kismet kismet is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkhound View Post
Well, it worked for my ancestors, who scrimped and saved to leave the Old Country and come to America. Our entire history is filled with accounts of people who left where they were with little more than the clothing on their backs and crossed the oceans or the praries or the mountains in search of something better. And, the fact that we, their descendants, are here shows that they found it. If it was done before, it can be done again.
And if America had not turned out to be a place where one could prosper, they would have caught the next ship to Portugal? I doubt it. Those who took their entire families by covered wagon across the continent did not then turn around and try Georgia instead.

Our entire history is also filled with people who wagered on that big chance and FAILED. Many of those who immigrated DIDN'T succeed. Many of those who migrated accross the prairies DIED on the way. During the Depression, thousands of people left the dust bowl looking for a better place to live, and many of them died, too. Wanting to succeed, even with a willingness to work hard, does not have a 100% guarantee of success. We like to believe it does, but without at least one good break, even the hardest working human being will not generally succeed against great odds.

My own great-great-grandfather left his home in the north and went south to buy land and start a farm. His farm failed, he lost his land, and his entire family, including children worked as sharecroppers and then in factories just to survive. He couldn't pick up and try somewhere else, they didn't have any resources. He was luckier than some of these Katrina victims, in that at least the factories were hiring, even if they had retched work conditions. And yet he still lived all his adult life in near-poverty, as did his children.
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  #50  
Old 16 August 2007, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkhound View Post
Well, it worked for my ancestors, who scrimped and saved to leave the Old Country and come to America. Our entire history is filled with accounts of people who left where they were with little more than the clothing on their backs and crossed the oceans or the praries or the mountains in search of something better. And, the fact that we, their descendants, are here shows that they found it. If it was done before, it can be done again.
Didn't work so great for the Donner party, though, did it?
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  #51  
Old 16 August 2007, 10:10 PM
Ryda Wong, EBfCo. Ryda Wong, EBfCo. is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkhound View Post
Well, it worked for my ancestors, who scrimped and saved to leave the Old Country and come to America. Our entire history is filled with accounts of people who left where they were with little more than the clothing on their backs and crossed the oceans or the praries or the mountains in search of something better. And, the fact that we, their descendants, are here shows that they found it. If it was done before, it can be done again.
Here's the bugagoo with that little anecdote, though (and the reason I despise it so very much).

You cannot, in any way, shape, or form, compare the financial realities of life in 105-50 years ago and life today. Sorry, that just don't work.

Unrestrained capitalistic enterprise has given us a very different financial landscape, and merged with incredible advances in information sharing and gathering, has produced an entirely different culture of immigration, be it immigration from state to state or from country to country.

It's all well and good to say that folks living in a very different world did something, but that has no bearing on the efficacy of such an action today.
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  #52  
Old 16 August 2007, 10:37 PM
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TurquoiseGirl TurquoiseGirl is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo. View Post
Here's the bugagoo with that little anecdote, though (and the reason I despise it so very much).

You cannot, in any way, shape, or form, compare the financial realities of life in 105-50 years ago and life today. Sorry, that just don't work.
Exactly. When I was unemployed? Had there been a way to earn land by farming on it for 5 year? I might have done that. Some of my ancestors did, so it must be possible.
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  #53  
Old 23 August 2007, 04:41 AM
Malruhn Malruhn is offline
 
 
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I just spent a little time on Google looking for jobs in Memphis for unskilled, no experience necessary positions.

Seventeen solicitations.

I made five phone calls - and when I told them that my "53 year old wife" had 22 years experience with housekeeping, Merry Maids hired her over the phone - at $17 per hour, and asked if she might be interested in management. Then Rite Aid hired her, sight unseen, at $16/hour as a cashier, as she was "responsible" for having that much experience in any one field. A corporate-owned McDonalds franchise also hired her without an interview at $11 per hour. Wal*Mart would like her to call to set up an interview, as they have had SEVEN unfilled cashier positions for over three months, and can't get anyone to fill them, even at $10.50/hour. A housekeeping temp agency told me to get her there every day by 7:00 a.m. and they could guarantee at least eight hours of work, seven days a week.

When I mentioned that she didn't have a high-school diploma (which she may have), they didn't balk.

When I mentioned that she was a Katrina evacuee, they didn't balk.
__________________________

My opinion stands. She doesn't WANT to get a job. Including the time on the phone, I spent less than 15 minutes looking this stuff up - and I haven't been in the job market for over 15 years, so I'm VERY rusty at looking for jobs. All the places I called were registered with the county, so the Employment Agency (job referral folks) have the position info.

This lady reminds me of my sister, lamenting her lack of wedded bliss. When asked what kind of guy she wants, she starts the list of deal-breaking requirements... and it is obvious that he has to be related to Jesus, and make a heluva lot more money than Jesus did... but then she cries that there aren't any guys out there.

This lady wants a job, but it has to be in housekeeping, Monday through Friday with every other Tuesday off, only in hotels with over 15 floors, with Whirlpool-brand industrial washers and driers for the bedding, in a hotel in New Orleans, in the Lower 9th Ward, with a boss named Mark...

But why can't she get a JOB?!?!?!?

Gimme a phreaking break.
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  #54  
Old 23 August 2007, 08:07 PM
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TakakoChigusa TakakoChigusa is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malruhn View Post
I just spent a little time on Google looking for jobs in Memphis for unskilled, no experience necessary positions.

Seventeen solicitations.

I made five phone calls - and when I told them that my "53 year old wife" had 22 years experience with housekeeping, Merry Maids hired her over the phone - at $17 per hour, and asked if she might be interested in management.
Merry Maids is also known for being a craphole to work for. I know three housekeers, each with over 10 years of experience, who tried working there and lasted about a week.

Quote:
Then Rite Aid hired her, sight unseen, at $16/hour as a cashier, as she was "responsible" for having that much experience in any one field.
That's amazing considering I had over 10 years of retail experience and was only offered slightly over minimum wage. In fact, I can't think of a single Rite Aid in my area where anyone but management makes that sort of money.

Actually, come to think of it, how did Rite Aid hire her sight unseen? The ones here you have to fill out a application as well as take a 10-15 page long test online at one of their instore computers before they will even *think* of giving you an interview.

Quote:
This lady wants a job, but it has to be in housekeeping, Monday through Friday with every other Tuesday off, only in hotels with over 15 floors, with Whirlpool-brand industrial washers and driers for the bedding, in a hotel in New Orleans, in the Lower 9th Ward, with a boss named Mark...

But why can't she get a JOB?!?!?!?

Gimme a phreaking break.
Give me a freaking break while you are at it.

You, my dear sir, obviously have never worked as a housekeeper in a hotel. I did it for a year before I moved to front desk. Cleaning the rooms is NO WAY IN HELL an easy job, at least when it comes to the strain on your body. I was a mere 30 when I did it, and let me tell you that my bones and muscles ached terribly on a daily basis. It is not a cushy job. It is not an easy job, and it sure as hell is not a job that you do because you think that being a waitress or a cashier is beneath you.
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  #55  
Old 23 August 2007, 08:11 PM
Ryda Wong, EBfCo. Ryda Wong, EBfCo. is offline
 
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Originally Posted by TakakoChigusa View Post

Actually, come to think of it, how did Rite Aid hire her sight unseen? The ones here you have to fill out a application as well as take a 10-15 page long test online at one of their instore computers before they will even *think* of giving you an interview.

I'm a bit dubious as well. You call up pretending to be someone's hubby and they offer her the job through you? That seems really suspicious. The temp agency, I can see, but Wal-mart and Rite Aid? Um, nope. They'd at least need to see ID, etc. prior to offering a job, and they'd certainly talk to the applicant herself first.

I think you got pwned
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  #56  
Old 23 August 2007, 11:05 PM
Christie Christie is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Malruhn View Post
I made five phone calls - and when I told them that my "53 year old wife" ....

Gimme a phreaking break.
That about sums it up for me. A total stranger calls out of the blue on behalf of someone else and gets firm job offers? Um, yeah, sure, pull the other one Malruhn.
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  #57  
Old 23 August 2007, 11:10 PM
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Chloe Chloe is offline
 
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I wonder how she was deemed capable of such jobs when she's apparently unable to talk on the phone?
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  #58  
Old 23 August 2007, 11:20 PM
Christie Christie is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Chloe View Post
I wonder how she was deemed capable of such jobs when she's apparently unable to talk on the phone?
I've got a sister who is desperate for a better job than the one she has now. Maybe her problem is she hasn't been having her husband cold call possible places of employment for her? I'll have to pass on this secret to successful job hunting - don't call for yourself, get hub to do it for you , and don't forget to get him to tell prospective employers how old you are. Apparently they love this tidbit of information .
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  #59  
Old 23 August 2007, 11:34 PM
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Cervus Cervus is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malruhn View Post
I just spent a little time on Google looking for jobs in Memphis for unskilled, no experience necessary positions.

Seventeen solicitations.

I made five phone calls - and when I told them that my "53 year old wife" had 22 years experience with housekeeping, Merry Maids hired her over the phone - at $17 per hour, and asked if she might be interested in management. Then Rite Aid hired her, sight unseen, at $16/hour as a cashier, as she was "responsible" for having that much experience in any one field. A corporate-owned McDonalds franchise also hired her without an interview at $11 per hour. Wal*Mart would like her to call to set up an interview, as they have had SEVEN unfilled cashier positions for over three months, and can't get anyone to fill them, even at $10.50/hour. A housekeeping temp agency told me to get her there every day by 7:00 a.m. and they could guarantee at least eight hours of work, seven days a week.

When I mentioned that she didn't have a high-school diploma (which she may have), they didn't balk.

When I mentioned that she was a Katrina evacuee, they didn't balk.
Malhrun, there's a lot of crap on the internet. But this post you've written is the biggest piece of horseshit I've ever read.

Nobody is ever hired over the phone, sight unseen, on a cold call by a third party. Please stop insulting our intelligence by pretending this is possible.

Quote:
This lady wants a job, but it has to be in housekeeping, Monday through Friday with every other Tuesday off, only in hotels with over 15 floors, with Whirlpool-brand industrial washers and driers for the bedding, in a hotel in New Orleans, in the Lower 9th Ward, with a boss named Mark...
You know her personally, huh?

Your attitude disgusts me.
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  #60  
Old 24 August 2007, 04:23 PM
Magdalene Magdalene is offline
 
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OK, just asked my roommate who has worked in a job placement agency (where she had to the make the matches for employers/employees) and HR.

She said IF they had gotten a resume and references and they checked out, then yes, they may have very well made an offer for those type of jobs without talking to the actual person in question.

But WITHOUT the resume or references, they wouldn't have. They might have express interest in interviewing, but they wouldn't have hired sight unseen without them.

And I am going to presume that the fictional wife made up for this argument had neither a resume or references.

Take that for whatever it's worth in this argument.

Magdalene

Last edited by Magdalene; 24 August 2007 at 04:29 PM.
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