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  #21  
Old 20 June 2018, 03:11 PM
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I don't think they've regulated what's allowed in vaping liquid, have they?
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  #22  
Old 20 June 2018, 03:25 PM
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OY, I think I actually agree with Jimmy here. Can contain is not the same as "hardly any better."

I do think vaping is just substituting one addition for another. At least vaping is less dangerous to those around you (more study needs to be done on that, I know).

Seaboe
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  #23  
Old 20 June 2018, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overyonder View Post
I'm not sure what you're trying to get to here. Are you trying to say that vaping is "safe"?

As per the CDC's website:

OY
If you read what is on the CDC pages you come to understand that there is very little data one way or another. It "may" do this or that, it "may" contain this or that ... that isn't science, that is being conservative in the absence of scientific data. That is fine and is part of the CDC's job. But they do not say it is "hardly safer than cigarettes" or anything anywhere near that. It might be massively safer than cigarettes, or slightly safer, or much more hazardous. But there is little data to support any of those pronouncements.

What we DO know is that cigarettes cause cancer and we can estimate how many cancers it causes each year, and the risk to the individual smoker, and the risk to people exposed to the smoke. Those risks are all significant. A knee-jerk reaction that vaping is "hardly better" may well inhibit an important route to reducing the damage caused by cigarettes.
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  #24  
Old 20 June 2018, 07:02 PM
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And a knee-jerk reaction that it's "significantly safer" may encourage a lot of people who were previously not addicted to nicotine to become so.

Again, vaping as an alternative to smoking, for those already addicted, may make a lot of sense. But advertising and/or societal behavior that encourages those not previously addicted to take up vaping is another matter entirely.
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  #25  
Old 20 June 2018, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
And a knee-jerk reaction that it's "significantly safer" may encourage a lot of people who were previously not addicted to nicotine to become so.

Again, vaping as an alternative to smoking, for those already addicted, may make a lot of sense. But advertising and/or societal behavior that encourages those not previously addicted to take up vaping is another matter entirely.
And adding flavours obviously designed to appeal to youngsters and teens is beyond reprehensible. They are trying to build up a market for their product that goes well beyond adults trying to quit smoking.
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  #26  
Old 20 June 2018, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
They are trying to build up a market for their product that goeswell beyond adults trying to quit smoking.
The only people I know who vape aren't trying to quit smoking. They're simply choosing a form of nicotine delivery that is less dangerous to their loved ones.

Seaboe
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  #27  
Old 20 June 2018, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker View Post
The only people I know who vape aren't trying to quit smoking. They're simply choosing a form of nicotine delivery that is less dangerous to their loved ones.

Seaboe
Interesting. Do they smoke regular cigarettes when they are alone or with other smokers? Most of the people I see vaping are very young. That's probably, sadly, because teens and young people think they're being cool I guess, where adults are vaping for other reasons.
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  #28  
Old 20 June 2018, 08:06 PM
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ETA: Sue's post:

That reminds me of a fake cigarette ad where the company states how they have to keep attracting young new clients because all of their existing clients keep mysteriously dying.
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  #29  
Old 20 June 2018, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker View Post
The only people I know who vape aren't trying to quit smoking. They're simply choosing a form of nicotine delivery that is less dangerous to their loved ones.

Seaboe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
Interesting. Do they smoke regular cigarettes when they are alone or with other smokers? Most of the people I see vaping are very young. That's probably, sadly, because teens and young people think they're being cool I guess, where adults are vaping for other reasons.
My wife switched to vaping. She was a 32+ year smoker who had a major health scare, so she switched to vaping. She's been vaping for 3 years and has significantly reduced her nicotine intake. Next stage she will be vaping 0 mg nicotine. She will probably vape for a long while yet. It is hard to break 35 years of a habit even if the nicotine is gone.
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  #30  
Old 20 June 2018, 09:53 PM
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I've seen claims that most or all of the carcinogens from cigarettes are from the smoke, and that vaping is safe. But there's obviously more to it than that since chew and snuff also cause mouth and throat cancers. It's true that we don't know exactly how unsafe vaping is, but the safer approach would be to require proof of the claim that it is safer, rather than the other way around.

People switching from cigarettes to vaping should know there's risk. It might make sense as part of a plan to quit altogether, but there's no proof that it will be better in the long run.
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  #31  
Old 21 June 2018, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Sue View Post
Interesting. Do they smoke regular cigarettes when they are alone or with other smokers?
Not that I'm aware of.

For G, I think one of the advantages of vaping is that he can take one or two puffs and put it away, without feeling he's wasting the cigarette. He's in his early 60s and is a long-time smoker (his wife smoked when they met, but gave it up when she got pregnant).

Seaboe
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  #32  
Old 21 June 2018, 06:19 PM
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I can vaguely remember when the last few rows of a movie theatre were the smoking rows. I was a child so I suspect that there weren't too many smokers watching those movies. It must have been annoying back in the day to try watching a movie with smoke lingering in the theatre.

I never flew on an airliner when smoking was allowed but that must have been terrible. Smoking was banned in offices by the time I started working so I missed that nonsense as well.

My high school had a smoking area when I attended in the early 1980s. You had to be 16 to smoke.
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  #33  
Old 21 June 2018, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by hotrod View Post
I never flew on an airliner when smoking was allowed but that must have been terrible.
It was. My parents both smoked and when we moved to Germany when I was 14 we were on a 707 for 9 hours. I was sitting in the "non-smoking" area, which was the front 1/3 of the airplane, in the row right in front of the smokers. I remember my eyes burning so badly when we finally got there.

And, given the fact that there was a small fire on board my second flight (someone had shoved a tissue into the ashtray, then smoked using the ashtray) I was sooooo happy when they banned smoking altogether on flights.
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  #34  
Old 21 June 2018, 06:47 PM
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I used to travel on long international flights as a kid, back when there was a smoking section. My parents both smoked. They would book one seat in the smoking section and 3 in non-smoking, and then they would switch seats periodically. By the end of the flight, it probably made little difference which section you were in.

People were so used to it. I don't remember hearing people complain about it until later, when the health effects were being emphasized more, and its popularity was at least beginning to wane.
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  #35  
Old 21 June 2018, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UEL View Post
And, given the fact that there was a small fire on board my second flight (someone had shoved a tissue into the ashtray, then smoked using the ashtray) I was sooooo happy when they banned smoking altogether on flights.
I think part of the rationale for banning smoking on flights was actually safety, not just health. Apparently it wasn't uncommon for cigarettes to start fires onboard planes back when smoking was allowed, particularly through cigarettes disposed of in lavatory trash bins. I'm not sure who would ever think it was a good idea to put a cigarette in a bin full of flammable paper towels, but it's happened.

Supposedly airlines' maintenance costs dropped after smoking was banned, too, as the smoke would gum up things like ventilation fans and make them fail prematurely. According to an aircraft mechanic on another board years ago, the only good thing about smoking on planes was that it made it easy to locate pressure leaks, as you just had to look for the nicotine stain on the outside of the plane.
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  #36  
Old 22 June 2018, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod View Post
My high school had a smoking area when I attended in the early 1980s. You had to be 16 to smoke.
We did, too, in the late 1970s. Hard to believe today.

You had to have permission from a parent to use the smoking area. You had to be 18 to actually buy cigarettes, but you could smoke if you were under age.

The principal, oddly enough, fought to get us a smoking area. He thought that people were going to do it anyway, and a smoking area would keep it contained.

And today, of course, even the teachers can't smoke in the building.

Thanks.

Bill
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  #37  
Old 22 June 2018, 02:57 PM
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We had a smoking room in my high school too. I went to school in Quebec which means the oldest kids using it would have been "I am 16 going on 17" but that's the way things were in the '70s I was talking about this with some friends a few days ago and we were all saying it was so pervasive we don't even remember smelling cigarette smoke, it was always there.
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  #38  
Old 22 June 2018, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
I was talking about this with some friends a few days ago and we were all saying it was so pervasive we don't even remember smelling cigarette smoke, it was always there.
I used to go to bars in my early twenties when smoking was allowed. I know I used to come home smelling like smoke but I don't recall that it ever bothered me. The guy down the hall from us smokes heavily and it's annoying. I swear if anyone is smoking within a 1 km radius of me I can smell it.

Back in the 1940s (or whenever) people must have constantly smelled of smoke. People could and did smoke everywhere - restaurants, bars, offices, stores, public transit, etc. You couldn't escape it.
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  #39  
Old 22 June 2018, 06:35 PM
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I've told this story before here, but it is germane to this conversation.

I lived in Salisbury in the UK from 2001-2002 on an exchange with the British Army. There was a wonderful local pub in our part of town, and my wife and I got to go there. I would be there more often than her as we had small kids and it was a popular spot to go with the gang from work.

I developed a bit of a friendship with the owners. They told me all about the history of the pub (it was old, really old) and the legends and lies that go with such a long history.

In 2006 (I believe) I was back in Salisbury for a meeting, and I went to visit my old haunt. First thing I noticed when I walked in was the carpet had been replaced by a beautiful wooden floor. In fact, I felt a bit shorter being in there standing on the floor.

I reunited with the owner and asked about that. He told me that when smoking was banned in the pubs, he had no issue with no one smoking indoors. But, as the air started to clear, they could smell this rotting, musty smell. Turns out, it was the old carpet underneath. There had been so much beer and cider dripped and dropped over the years it had sunk into the carpet and started rotting. Add to that the smell of cigarettes in the fabric of the carpet, it made for a bad smell.

So, they went to rip out the old carpet, and found another, and another, and another. Apparently, for over a century, every time they wanted a new carpet, they just laid the new one over the old. They pulled up 7 layers of carpet at various spots in the pub. Mind you, it was all hard and matted and was like boards with not much spring in them. the owner was amazed at how much was there.

Underneath, they found a medieval wooden floor, which they cleaned up, polished up and decided to keep using. So, the ban on smoking allowed them to find a nice old wooden floor, which then gave the place a bit more of a rustic, classy feel.

Much nicer place to visit (visually). Still a great place for friendship.
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  #40  
Old 24 June 2018, 11:32 AM
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My coworker visited Mexico a few years ago and decided not to take his vaping device, as it rather costly and didn't want it stolen. And cigarettes in Mexico are really cheap, compared to the U.K.

As a non-smoker I absolutely agree that vaping has certain advantages. What would be earlier a 1-2 cigarette break now becomes a few puffs. Less casual trash, as the device can be filled at home, and the devices are so costly, no one is going to just toss them in the drains, like they do with cigarette butts.

I chose Northwest Airlines in 1987-ish, as they were one of the first U.S. airlines to ban smoking. The last time I saw an open flame on a plane was November 2001, when the flight attendants lit a candle for a cupcake for a colleague's birthday, who was on the plane, but not working. The entire flight was about 1/3 - 1/2 empty as it was.
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