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Old 12 April 2013, 03:12 AM
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Devil Hell

Comment: I have been told that the early tracts of the Bible have no
mention of Hell. That Hell is an addition to the bible by the church and
was never even conceived of in the old scrolls. True or not true?
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  #2  
Old 12 April 2013, 06:46 AM
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Does it matter when a made-up place is included in a fiction book?
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Old 12 April 2013, 11:09 AM
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Why is Hell a place of suffering? Isn't the Devil's job to be totally opposite of God? So, if you are so heinous in life that God wants nothing to do with you, and you go to Hell, why would the Devil punish you? Wouldn't it be party time? Or is the Devil really God's jailer in disguise?
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Old 12 April 2013, 12:04 PM
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Frying Pan

Quote:
Originally Posted by damian View Post
Does it matter when a made-up place is included in a fiction book?
Couldn't have said it better myself. I always marvelled at the eye-witness accounts of hell we were given by the nuns.
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Old 12 April 2013, 02:03 PM
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Eye witness? When I was a kid we all knew that blue jays went to Hell on the weekends to help gather firewood (this was before Hell got central heating) but I didn't know the nuns were in on it too.
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  #6  
Old 13 April 2013, 02:44 AM
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When people died in the Old Testament, they went to Sheol. It meant going into a common grave. Didn't matter if you were good or bad.

Gehenna was a place outside the town where everyone tossed out their trash (including dead bodies), which was kept perpetually burning. The word is used alternatively with Hell.

Here is a quote:

Quote:
Matthew 18:8-9 (PHILLIPS) | In Context | Whole Chapter
The right way may mean costly sacrifice

8-9 “If your hand or your foot is a hindrance to your faith, cut it off and throw it away. It is a good thing to go into life maimed or crippled—rather than to have both hands and feet and be thrown on to the everlasting fire. Yes, and if your eye leads you astray, tear it out and throw it away. It is a good thing to go one-eyed into life—rather than to have both your eyes and be thrown on the fire of the rubbish heap.
In most other translations, "rubbish heap" is called "hell".

I'm no biblical scholar, I welcome corrections.
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Old 29 April 2013, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damian View Post
Does it matter when a made-up place is included in a fiction book?
Not that I believe in Hell either, but the Bible is a religious scrpicture, not a fiction book. Even if you don't believe in any of its stories, there's a difference.
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Old 29 April 2013, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefuemon View Post
Why is Hell a place of suffering? Isn't the Devil's job to be totally opposite of God? So, if you are so heinous in life that God wants nothing to do with you, and you go to Hell, why would the Devil punish you? Wouldn't it be party time? Or is the Devil really God's jailer in disguise?
Actually, yes. The book of Job describes the Devil as a prosecutor, who wants God to let him punish people.
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Old 29 April 2013, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thera View Post
Gehenna was a place outside the town where everyone tossed out their trash (including dead bodies), which was kept perpetually burning. The word is used alternatively with Hell.
There's a Columbus suburb called Gahanna. I don't know what the origin of the name is, but it always reminds of Gehenna.
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Old 30 April 2013, 01:34 AM
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Well the name Hell appears not to have been used until the King James Bible, where I wonder if it was coined for the Hebrew word "Sheol" and the Norse goddess of the underworld "Hel." Early versions of the New Testament to have used the Greek term "Hades" or "Tartarus," the terms used for the Underworld in Greek mythology. So in other words, "We don't want you to worship other gods but we don't mind using their names to talk about our god."
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Old 30 April 2013, 02:24 AM
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The English word "Hell" is older than the KJV, and you're right, it might have some connection to the similar Norse word. http://etymonline.com/?term=hell
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Old 30 April 2013, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furienna View Post
Not that I believe in Hell either, but the Bible is a religious scrpicture, not a fiction book. Even if you don't believe in any of its stories, there's a difference.
Not really. If the stories contained in a book are not true, there's really nothing for them to be but fiction, regardless of whether or not some people believe otherwise.
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Old 30 April 2013, 08:45 AM
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That's not a very nuanced attitude to language - "truth" and "fiction" aren't binary well-defined things. There are lots of types of writing which aren't "true" but aren't "fiction" either. What about a discredited scientific theory? Or a history book written before a particular discovery was made that changed the interpretation?
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Old 30 April 2013, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
The English word "Hell" is older than the KJV, and you're right, it might have some connection to the similar Norse word. http://etymonline.com/?term=hell
The words sure are connected. In modern Swedish, the word has evolved into "helvete" (now a very common swear word), which orginally meant "the punishment you will get in Hell". But if we talk about the old mythology, both the place and the goddess are called "Hel", which also would be the original word.

It's interesting too that both the ancient Greeks and the ancient Norse would use the same name for the place, where you ended up after death, and the deity ruling over it (Hades and Hel respectively).
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Old 30 April 2013, 09:10 AM
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For Swedes, Hell is Switzerland?
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Old 30 April 2013, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
Not really. If the stories contained in a book are not true, there's really nothing for them to be but fiction, regardless of whether or not some people believe otherwise.
How do you know that they're not true? Even if some aren't, others could be. And myths, whether you happen to believe in them or not, are never fiction.
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Old 30 April 2013, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furienna View Post
Not that I believe in Hell either, but the Bible is a religious scrpicture, not a fiction book. Even if you don't believe in any of its stories, there's a difference.
If it's not fiction, then it is a lie. Subtle distinction. One is meant to entertain, the other is meant to deceive.

People are taught to believe it is real. Doesn't mean it is. Calling it religious scripture doesn't make it real.
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Old 30 April 2013, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
For Swedes, Hell is Switzerland?
No, but I understand what you mean, as Helvetia is the old name for Switzerland. But the words aren't connected to each other, as the name for Switzerland goes back to a Celtic tribe and has a totally different meaning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvetia
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  #19  
Old 30 April 2013, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damian View Post
If it's not fiction, then it is a lie. Subtle distinction. One is meant to entertain, the other is meant to deceive.

People are taught to believe it is real. Doesn't mean it is. Calling it religious scripture doesn't make it real.
It does put it in another cathegory than fiction though. If you search for the Bible in the library, you won't find it in the fiction section, as it doesn't belong there. At least here in Sweden, it's under the religion section, and that perfectly shows where the Bible belongs: Not in the history section or the science section, or in the fiction section.
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Old 30 April 2013, 09:25 AM
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That's only because the library is scared of offending religious nutjobs.

eta It occurred to me that there are 2 things we'll have little need for in the future: libraries and religion.
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