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  #61  
Old 19 July 2017, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreams of Thinking Machines View Post
Now for a wibbly, wobbly, timey-whimey riddle:
I fixed it for you.
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  #62  
Old 19 July 2017, 08:02 PM
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Dreams, I always thought it was because the zombie dad was not a surgeon, but your answer of gay dads makes a lot more sense.
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  #63  
Old 19 July 2017, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
Same here. I'm a huge Trek fan and I love Galaxy Quest. All my friends who are Trek fans love it, too. I thought the depiction of fans was quite positive -- it was the teenage fans who saved them in the end.

ETA: William Shatner piles crap on fans more than Galaxy Quest did, IMO. And they made him rich.
Yeah, the only complaint I usually hear about Galaxy Quest is that they didn't cast Wil Wheaton as a fan who complained about how the show was ruined from having a kid on it.
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  #64  
Old 20 July 2017, 02:08 AM
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Freaky!! I was just reading this thread and the jokes about the woman Dr and on Ellen she starts talking about a new TV show. Her line "get this ... the doctor is a women. Freaky huh" She was joking of course. But that was kind of weird. Cause I remember hearing that riddle and when it would have tricked people but wouldn't think it would work now.
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  #65  
Old 20 July 2017, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by StrangeOne View Post
Who said it's a problem? I think highlighting the differences between the way males and females are treated is if anything more reason to do it.
I can sort of see where you're coming from, but it still bothers me that we can't just have a female kicking ass and taking names without Overcoming TEH Sexism! It also doesn't help that the sexism female character faces, is usually of the Straw Misogynist variety that doesn't really address the more subtler prejudices facing women in society and, in fact, may reinforce some of those prejudices.

A prime example is of the Tomboy Princess. Now I'm not saying a princess can't be a tomboy; what I'm more referring to is the simplistic version, where she constantly whines about wearing dresses and proceeds to be constantly "I am woman hear me roar!" At the same time all this is going on, Tomboy Princess looks down on other ladies who :gasp: like wearing dresses and doing needlework and other traditional feminine activities.

In that scenario, you're still reinforcing cultural sexism by explicitly saying that female-oriented stuff is weak and bad. Therefore, Tomboy Princess is good, because she's less of a girl than those other women.

Is there a reason you can't have a female character who can hold her own in a fight, yet at the same time, she can still rock a dress like no one's business?

If they do have to address sexism, I hope they avoid the Straw Misogynist. An approach like what they did in the Wonder Woman movie would actually work pretty well. Like the Nostalgia Critic said, the movie is clearly aware of the Fish Out of Water and Woman Has to Deal with Sexist Jerks tropes and it plays with them a little, but on the whole, it kind of recognizes that this stuff has been seen and done before. So it deals with them quickly then proceeds to get to Wonder Woman just being awesome.
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  #66  
Old 20 July 2017, 02:53 AM
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Sorry to double post but it has been nearly 40mins.

It is hard to remember how much things have changed in my lifetime. one of the interesting things about the series "Life On Mars" which for those of you unfamiliar with it, is a English series in which John Simms plays a 21st century policeman who somehow is transported to the early '70's. He really struggles with how both women and people of different races are treated both by the police force and by the general public. In one episode he even passes himself as a child so it in his own lifetime.

Yesterday I borrowed a DVD of the show from my library because I thought this show was fantastic in how it looks at those changes but how it recreates the look and feel of police shows of that time.

Ok so not a double post cause Mouse posted before me.
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  #67  
Old 20 July 2017, 03:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
Is there a reason you can't have a female character who can hold her own in a fight, yet at the same time, she can still rock a dress like no one's business?
Actually, there's a trope for that.
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  #68  
Old 21 July 2017, 01:28 AM
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Of course, what really sucks about both this and the Wonder Woman movie is how fans will pretty much have to do constant "Please don't let this suck" prayers, because if it bombs, it might be decades before we see another one again.
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  #69  
Old 21 July 2017, 02:18 AM
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Ugh, one of my friends is against having a female Doctor and we're arguing online. His arguments are really vague and poorly articulated, stuff like "I believe in equality but I just don't like one of my favourite settings subverted" which is really ambiguous. When we asked him to clarify what he meant by 'subverted' he replied with "take the word subvert poetically rather than literally then. Just because there is a contrary feeling does not render it wrong or irrelevant" which makes even less sense. When I pointed that out he replied with "perhaps you could work on trying to comprehend" which would make me assume I was being trolled if I didn't know the guy.

I've replied with "if you can't actually explain your own stance then you can't expect people to respect it. As it stands your opinion on the new Doctor comes across as irrational and selfish and, worst of all, banal."
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  #70  
Old 21 July 2017, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
Certainly her role was quite a bit more than "switchboard operator"! Her translation and mediation played a key role in several of the stories. She had specific areas of expertise that came into play frequently, which I'm not sure I could say about Kirk or even Spock. I get that it wasn't too jarring to see a woman at a switchboard-like console but what she actually did (and could do) was often quite a bit more.

I thought Uhura had operated as either the pilot or the navigation officer one more than one occasion when Sulu or Chekhov had been incapacitated by the Peril of the Week.
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  #71  
Old 21 July 2017, 02:03 PM
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Yes, she did. One time was in Balance of Terror. Not sure of other times.

When I was looking that up, found that she was once in the Captain's chair in the Animated series.
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  #72  
Old 22 July 2017, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutter Monkey View Post
Ugh, one of my friends is against having a female Doctor and we're arguing online. His arguments are really vague and poorly articulated, stuff like "I believe in equality but I just don't like one of my favourite settings subverted" which is really ambiguous. When we asked him to clarify what he meant by 'subverted' he replied with "take the word subvert poetically rather than literally then. Just because there is a contrary feeling does not render it wrong or irrelevant" which makes even less sense. When I pointed that out he replied with "perhaps you could work on trying to comprehend" which would make me assume I was being trolled if I didn't know the guy.

I've replied with "if you can't actually explain your own stance then you can't expect people to respect it. As it stands your opinion on the new Doctor comes across as irrational and selfish and, worst of all, banal."
Ah, the arguments of dudebros...no matter what the franchise, they remain the same. Apparently adding more PoC or women to a franchise that has been dominated by White Dudes, because White and Male was basically the default for much of history, is pandering and trying to shove a message down the throats of fans.

Whereas having nothing but White Dudes all the time, in no way panders to a demographic, nor can it be construed as sending any kind of message. You're crazy if you think that's the case.
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  #73  
Old 22 July 2017, 05:11 AM
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The discussion has been continuing and I'm actually starting to think that my friend isn't capable of critical self-evaluation. He had a kneejerk reaction to the news and that was that, he's arrived at an opinion and he's sticking with it and he just isn't capable of any level of internal reflection. It's like it never even occurred to him that critical self-evaluation is a thing that humans are capable of doing or should be doing, he's genuinely failing to understand the concept.
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  #74  
Old 22 July 2017, 07:39 AM
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Sounds like discussing politics with my mom.
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  #75  
Old 22 July 2017, 04:12 PM
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Meanwhile :

http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2017/07...1948-2017.html

I was very sad last evening when I learned the news. I loved her and her character in the series (and the few surviving episodes in which she appeared). That fraking cancer didn't leave her a chance now, did it ?

As for Jodie Whittaker : YES ! It's been a long time coming, but at least, now, it has happened. And I don't care what people say, I am impatient to see her in the part.
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  #76  
Old 23 July 2017, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutter Monkey View Post
The discussion has been continuing and I'm actually starting to think that my friend isn't capable of critical self-evaluation. He had a kneejerk reaction to the news and that was that, he's arrived at an opinion and he's sticking with it and he just isn't capable of any level of internal reflection. It's like it never even occurred to him that critical self-evaluation is a thing that humans are capable of doing or should be doing, he's genuinely failing to understand the concept.
You might want to just bail out; it's probably not worth it. Can't do much to help the Willfully Ignorant. We're all ignorant about something--nobody knows everything unless they're, y'know, God--but Willful Ignorance is where they are pretty much closed off to learning; in fact, they probably think their ignorance makes their opinion all the more purer, because they haven't sullied themselves with facts.

Until something shatters their ignorance dome, there really isn't a lot you can do to help them. It's usually pointless trying to debate or have a discussion with them, much as any discussion with Creationists invariably turns into the phenomenon known as Pigeon Chess. Maybe you'll be the stone that shatters their protective ignorance dome, but it's unlikely.
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