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  #1  
Old 20 March 2018, 10:08 PM
Jusenkyo no Pikachu Jusenkyo no Pikachu is online now
 
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Default Man who jokingly taught dog Nazi salute found guilty

Either jokes are hate speech or the guy is a Nazi.
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  #2  
Old 20 March 2018, 10:22 PM
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"It's a joke" is one of the most overused defenses out there, probably tied with "First Amendment" rights. Saying something was a joke does nothing to affect it offensiveness, it just attempts to blame those hurt by it for not having a "good" sense of humor. IMO it is the verbal equivalent to "Yes, I punched that guy in the back of the head, but it was a prank, so it isn't assault."
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Old 20 March 2018, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
"It's a joke" is one of the most overused defenses out there, probably tied with "First Amendment" rights. Saying something was a joke does nothing to affect it offensiveness, it just attempts to blame those hurt by it for not having a "good" sense of humor. IMO it is the verbal equivalent to "Yes, I punched that guy in the back of the head, but it was a prank, so it isn't assault."
In this case, the “joke” was about conditioning a dog to respond to Nazi references. With the right amount of context, we could in fact see that as a joke.
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Old 20 March 2018, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Jusenkyo no Pikachu View Post
With the right amount of context, we could in fact see that as a joke.
Yes we could. Which makes absolutely no difference into how offensive it is. It might even make it worse as it takes a horrible event in human history and turns into into the equivalent of a whoopee cushion.
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Old 21 March 2018, 12:30 AM
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I was wondering how it was decided if something said was "grossly offensive", which apparently is enough to send someone to jail, and I found this http://merlin.obs.coe.int/iris/2006/...cle101.en.html about the law.

It refers to another case where a man was found not guilty. He apparently called MPs and left anti-immigration messages using racial slurs. But some of the points in the article make it hard to see why Meechan was found guilty:
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[The judge] found that the lower court was entitled to decide as it did. In general, he said that: “the reason for criminalising certain messages sent by post, telephone or public electronic communications network was to protect people against receipt of unsolicited messages which they might find seriously objectionable.” Thus, the legislation “…struck a balance between the respect for private life enjoined by article 8 and the right of free expression protected by article 10.
Yeah, I'm not a lawyer so I'm sure there's a lot I'm missing but why would clicking on a Reddit link really count as "receipt of [an] unsolicited message"?

Other articles, like this one, just leave me confused.
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In particular he quoted the seminal ECHR case of Handyside v UK which says that freedom of expression includes the right to say things that ‘offend, shock or disturb the state or any sector of the population’ before concluding that prosecution in the Daley case would not be appropriate.
If a court case ruled that people have the right to say things that offend, shock or disturb, wouldn't that mean the law against saying grossly offensive things is invalid?
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Old 20 March 2018, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jusenkyo no Pikachu View Post
What do you think of it?
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  #7  
Old 20 March 2018, 10:47 PM
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Jusenkyo no Pikachu, if you think that's a joke, I don't think I'd enjoy your sense of humor.
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Old 21 March 2018, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
Jusenkyo no Pikachu, if you think that's a joke, I don't think I'd enjoy your sense of humor.
I never said I found it funny.

You might not find this funny, but it’s still a decently constructed joke.
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Old 21 March 2018, 01:57 AM
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I don't get the impression from the linked story that there's any evidence the guy is a Nazi, apart from this "joke". And for people feeling sorry for the dog, there's no evidence given that he trained the dog to respond to Nazi references. That would be quite hard. (He trained the dog to respond to something, but not that). If there is any evidence for these things, it's not given in the story.

It's also not obvious what his sentence for being "found guilty" is. I get the impression that this is an example case, though, to try to quell certain kinds of speech. ("Hate speech", the advocates would say, but irony and satire are also potentially included here if you paint it with too broad a brush).

And for what it's worth, I can entirely see how his joke might have been a joke to him. These things are - thankfully - detached from reality for most of us. But making an ironic joke about something doesn't mean that you're advocating that thing. This is often what people mean when they say "it was a joke" - not that they were threatening you but you took it the wrong way, but that they were being ironic in the first place and their comments were meant to be read in the opposite way to the literal meaning.

I have no idea whether this guy was trying to be ironic, or just (as he says) winding up his girlfriend. Either way, I can't see any evidence in the story as written that he's actually a Nazi.
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Old 21 March 2018, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
This is often what people mean when they say "it was a joke" - not that they were threatening you but you took it the wrong way, but that they were being ironic in the first place and their comments were meant to be read in the opposite way to the literal meaning.
That is very often not at all what people mean when they say something was just a joke. What they very often mean is that their comments were meant to be read in exactly the way of the literal meaning, but that everyone is supposed to find the literal meaning funny: because attacking whoever is being attacked is supposed to be thought of as funny.
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Old 21 March 2018, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jusenkyo no Pikachu View Post
I never said I found it funny.

You might not find this funny, but it’s still a decently constructed joke.
No, it isn't.

There's no twist, no punch line. And nothing funny about it. It's only and purely intended to offend; and that's not a joke.

-- wait a minute, I thought you were referring to the original story; I didn't see the link there. The link goes to a video, however, and I don't feel like watching a video; especially one I'm apparently expected to find offensive.

Last edited by thorny locust; 21 March 2018 at 04:45 AM.
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  #12  
Old 21 March 2018, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
-- wait a minute, I thought you were referring to the original story; I didn't see the link there. The link goes to a video, however, and I don't feel like watching a video; especially one I'm apparently expected to find offensive.
For context: the video is the one aired episode of Heil, Honey, I’m Home!, a British TV series that parodied 1950s dom coms by having Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun living next door to a Jewish couple.
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