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  #21  
Old 05 January 2016, 09:16 PM
Coughdrops Coughdrops is offline
 
 
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Seaboe, it looks like that's just for the "Update Now" things, not the massive amounts of Win 10 components waiting to be activated.

ganzfeld, those are ads. I accept that cookies and ads are a part of life, but I can delete or opt-out of those.

Can anyone who has more tech know-how than me (admittedly not a difficult thing) just tell me straight, is Microsoft going to search through my hard drive and read my emails if I get the Win 7 updates? Will I be blocked from sites they don't approve of, like competitors? Will they steal my bandwidth?
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  #22  
Old 05 January 2016, 09:26 PM
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Beachlife! Beachlife! is offline
 
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Maybe if you give permission; no; not really

Google already does the first. The second I don't think is legal. The third seems like questionable labeling of a misunderstood process.
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  #23  
Old 05 January 2016, 09:43 PM
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ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coughdrops View Post
ganzfeld, those are ads.
How do you know? It's twenty or thirty giant blobs of code written by thousands of people. It can (and often does) do all kinds of things unrelated to ads. You have no idea what it's doing and the known issues with not-so-benign scripts have been way way way more than those with spying OSs.
Quote:
I accept that cookies and ads are a part of life, but I can delete or opt-out of those.
Sometimes that works. You can also monitor the OS, disable features, disable or delete the whole OS and move to a different one...
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  #24  
Old 05 January 2016, 09:53 PM
Bobcat Warrior Bobcat Warrior is offline
 
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Back last Summer (on the advice of my very techi step son) I signed up for the the free Windows 10. Still haven't received notice to download. Not sure if this isn't a blessing in disguise, but shouldn't I have heard something by now?

BW
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  #25  
Old 05 January 2016, 11:00 PM
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ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
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BW, I'm surprised your current OS hasn't started pestering you to get the free upgrade. I wonder if maybe you haven't updated your current version recently or, less likely, Windows has detected some hardware issue... some registration issue... ??

Personally, I don't upgrade anything until I feel I have no choice but I have to use Windows 10 for some things and, frankly, it's a nice OS. If you're not like me and plan to upgrade eventually, and you're not so frightened of spooks in the OS, I think it's worth a try. (For example, just stop by a local vendor and flip through the menus and see if you feel you can use it.)
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  #26  
Old 06 January 2016, 02:48 AM
Coughdrops Coughdrops is offline
 
 
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So Google is scanning my hard drive now too?
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  #27  
Old 06 January 2016, 05:02 AM
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ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
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Lots of mail system algorithms scan mails for various reasons, especially for ads and for filtering, etc. I've never heard of one that does it on mails in the hard-drive - at least not without the user agreeing to it. But just the other day I accidentally allowed an app to use an address book, which was a big mistake. (The result wasn't too serious, this time.) Lots of OS processes and applications might do that kind of thing. I agree it's not good. I wish I could stop using any apps that do that without me very explicitly asking them to. (But, unfortunately, I can't. In that case, it wasn't even my own device.)

Have you tried other OS's, CD? I hear good things about Google Chrome OS, for example. Ubuntu and Mint Linux are also rather good, especially for just doing normal webby-maily-browsy stuff.
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  #28  
Old 06 January 2016, 02:20 PM
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Seaboe Muffinchucker Seaboe Muffinchucker is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coughdrops View Post
Seaboe, it looks like that's just for the "Update Now" things, not the massive amounts of Win 10 components waiting to be activated.
It does a number of things, one of which is to delete any Win 10 files already loaded on your computer. I've deleted over 10G of them (total from both machines).

Seaboe
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  #29  
Old 06 January 2016, 04:05 PM
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Wolf333 Wolf333 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coughdrops View Post
Some people are saying it's overblown, some are saying that Microsoft is now just an arm of the NSA.
When did Neil Cavuto join the board?
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  #30  
Old 07 January 2016, 06:41 AM
Troberg Troberg is offline
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coughdrops View Post
This post of Troberg in the last Win10 thread is a whole list of reasons not to trust Microsoft. http://message.snopes.com/showpost.p...7&postcount=18

Some people are saying it's overblown, some are saying that Microsoft is now just an arm of the NSA.
Yep, and I don't say that it's not blown out of proportions, but even if it is, even one of those items, even in a mild version, is on the unforgivable level, something that should never happen. They are all "You just don't do that!" stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker View Post
Yes, it can be turned off, but it's such a risky feature that it should never be on by default. Most people won't know about it, and won't turn it off, which will put them at risk.

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Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
Ever checked out all the scripts they load every time you look at their page? It's this enormous blob of code running in your computer, written by thousands of programmers who you apparently trust more than MS for some reason. The page won't even load if you turn that off. Lessee... Holy... %&! Something like thirty external trackers every time you visit that page and you want me to worry about the operating system??
I occasionally check scripts, and many others do as well. Together, we get an excellent coverage, and the whistle is blown if something is found. There are also several web browser plugins which automatically does some sanity checks on web scripts. Also, remember that most of the scripts are ads, which first of all can be easily blocked, and second, is the same script recurring on a huge number of sites, so it's easy to keep them checked. Modern web browsers are also fairly good at encapsulating scripts so they can't get out of their little sandbox, very different from the old ActiveX days.

With Windows, however, it's closed source, so the code can not be checked. There is no external review, no way to guarantee it not being malicious. The only "guarantee" we have is Microsoft saying "We haven't done anything malicious. Promise!". There is no way to check if it's true or not.

That said, I still firmly believe that allowing active content on the client side of the web was a huge mistake, and has led to many security risks while providing little real benefit which couldn't have been provided in other ways.
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  #31  
Old 08 January 2016, 10:23 PM
Coughdrops Coughdrops is offline
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker View Post
It does a number of things, one of which is to delete any Win 10 files already loaded on your computer. I've deleted over 10G of them (total from both machines).

Seaboe
Thanks for the link, it worked just like you said.
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  #32  
Old 09 January 2016, 07:11 AM
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Rebochan Rebochan is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
Ever checked out all the scripts they load every time you look at their page? It's this enormous blob of code running in your computer, written by thousands of programmers who you apparently trust more than MS for some reason. The page won't even load if you turn that off. Lessee... Holy... %&! Something like thirty external trackers every time you visit that page and you want me to worry about the operating system??
Oh, it's even better - Forbes used its ads to actually install malware on to its readers systems.

AGAIN.
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  #33  
Old 09 January 2016, 08:50 AM
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ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
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On the one hand, I'd like to join in blaming them. But I kind of agree with the article you linked to:
Quote:
It's easy to want to blame Reader's Digest, or Yahoo, or Forbes, or Daily Mail [...]
But the problem is coming through them, from the ad networks themselves. The same ones, it should be mentioned, who control the Faustian bargains made by bartering and selling our information.
A lot of sites have been hit by this problem including one that, well, I'm pretty sure you have used, uh, recently. What I would like to see form the content providers, however, is a reduction in the number of vectors they open on their pages. Compared to Forbes, for example, the ULRP only has a handful of outside content links (and this one only has a couple, last time I counted). That at least helps us monitor what's going on. Also, unlike the article mentioned (although it worked for me with blocking on), turning off those doesn't kill the page. I feel more comfortable leaving it on knowing that I can always turn it off.
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  #34  
Old 11 January 2016, 06:23 AM
Troberg Troberg is offline
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coughdrops View Post
ganzfeld, those are ads. I accept that cookies and ads are a part of life, but I can delete or opt-out of those.
I've had virus infection attempts twice through ads, both from one of the major newspaper sites in Sweden.
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