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Old 18 October 2016, 06:57 AM
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Default Has Trump had a bigger cultural impact than Clinton?

Everyone can name Donald Trump's campaign slogan: "Make America Great Again." But can you name Clinton's? Does she even have one?

Most projections indicate a high likelihood of a Clinton victory a few weeks from now. But Trump may have already won a victory of his own in the influence he's had on American culture and the way he has raised his own fame to just about the highest level possible.

What does it mean that despite the projections on who's going to win on November 8, Trump's official page has almost twice as many "likes" as Clinton's? He also has about 3 million more Twitter followers.

Everyone can name at least one Trump policy proposal: "We're going to build a wall to keep Mexicans out and we're going to make Mexicans pay for it." How many Clinton policy proposals can the average American name?
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Old 18 October 2016, 08:25 AM
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Well, to a certain extent Clinton is working a "not Trump" ticket. On that basis she's maintaining a smaller target.

It's also forced on her to an extent. Trump's big ticket items are reducable to 3 or 4 word slogan: Build the Wall. Send them Home. Make America Great Again. They're simplistic, jingoistic and antagonistic. Her response is to present as intelligent, thoughtful and unitive - it isn't easy to do that in slogans.

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Old 18 October 2016, 01:58 PM
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I don't really agree with the premise. His proposals such as they are have been around since forever- keep "them" out, it's us against the evil beaurocrats, etc sure some people are more involved now but they have always been there. I would concede that he shook up the GOP, but others have argued that the GOP begat all this and he brought it to the finish line.

As for his own fame, well he is self promoting and he has more put himself back on the news than increased his fame. Music geek (I think) showed comic strips in another thread from 1988 the gist was Donald being Donald and a yes man saying "They love ya'" To me, the effect on his fame is putting himself back in the news much like a Kardashian drumming up theory latest "scandal" to stay relevant. (Not meant to downplay the very real importance of a presidential election.)

TL/DR: This phenomenon revealed some things about culture but has not really shifted it.

ETA: Clinton's big cultural effect is the glass ceiling. Her policy proposals are mostly measured/moderate from standard Democratic fare. Not to say that once she is in she won't have a big agenda, but what would have been her most obvious was already started by Obama (healthcare).

Last edited by Dr. Dave; 18 October 2016 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 18 October 2016, 02:25 PM
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Mr. Billion, was there a link you meant to include, or are you expressing your own thoughts?
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Old 18 October 2016, 02:40 PM
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I don't really get what's interesting about this question. There are probably at least dozens of people and other entities in the US who have had a bigger cultural impact than Hillary Clinton. Maybe Bugs Bunny had a bigger cultural impact than Calvin Coolidge. So?
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Old 18 October 2016, 03:04 PM
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Is I'm With Her her official slogan, or is that just something people say? The Twitter numbers might show that Trump supporters are more likely to really like him and think he's terrific, just terrific, and Clinton supporters are more likely to think she's better than Trump even if they aren't too crazy about her. Or maybe Trump supporters are just more likely to fall into whatever demographic it is that tends to like things on Facebook and follow people on Twitter.

But yeah, I don't know if any other candidate has ever changed the culture quite like this.
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Old 18 October 2016, 03:10 PM
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Trump also has a MUCH bigger Wikipedia entry than Hillary or even Obama according to this article: http://observer.com/2016/10/donald-t...ton-wikipedia/
He's also appeared in a whole bunch of movies and TV shows and whatnot and has carved out a significant slice of the pop culture pie for himself.

HOWEVER

I don't think that cultural impact is something that can be accurately measured from the inside, and the true impact of the two candidates can only be measured with any sort of accuracy in a historical sense at some point in the future. Cultural impact isn't just about the amount of 'noise' any particular person or phenomenon generates at the time, it's mostly about the resonance they have afterwards. It could be that in 10 or 20 years time the losing candidate will be all but forgotten.
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Old 18 October 2016, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
I don't really get what's interesting about this question. There are probably at least dozens of people and other entities in the US who have had a bigger cultural impact than Hillary Clinton. Maybe Bugs Bunny had a bigger cultural impact than Calvin Coolidge. So?
If you find it so uninteresting, it's very strange you went out of your way to comment on it.

Lainie: No link, just something I was thinking about. It's odd to me that Trump appears to be "winning" on Facebook but losing in real life. I wonder why he has so many more online followers.
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Old 18 October 2016, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Billion View Post

Lainie: No link, just something I was thinking about. It's odd to me that Trump appears to be "winning" on Facebook but losing in real life. I wonder why he has so many more online followers.
Possibly for the same reason you see so many more negative reviews than positive ones. People with an axe to grind need an outlet and, sadly, Trump is providing that for them. I think - well I hope anyway - that these people are the vocal minority.
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Old 18 October 2016, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Billion View Post
I wonder why he has so many more online followers.
The same reason that lots of people having a nice dinner in a fancy restaurant get a LOT less attention than the one couple at the table where the man starts screaming at his date that she is a NFBSK and he is leaving her for her twin sister. Outrageous behavior gets more attention than solid, dependable behavior.
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  #11  
Old 18 October 2016, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Billion View Post
I wonder why he has so many more online followers.
A lot of my friends will vote for Clinton. Because Sanders isn't an option any more. So they still have their "likes" for Sanders and haven't "liked" Clinton.

I presume there is the same for those voting Republican, but many who normally vote Republican are abandoning ship.

And are all those Facebook accounts reals?
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Old 18 October 2016, 05:18 PM
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Not all "cultural impacts" are good. George Wallace had a large cultural impact.
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Old 18 October 2016, 05:27 PM
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Did he, though? He seemed to come at the end of Jim Crow as it was dying, and he and his supporters refused to see that times were changing. With Trump and his supporters, we're seriously discussing building a wall that nobody cared about for the past 150 years.
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Old 18 October 2016, 05:39 PM
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I disagree on two points. 1) No one is seriously discussing actually building it. There are serious discussions on the cost, practicality, racism, etc but no one is actually making concrete* plans to build it as Trump has specified. 2) Similar walls have and are being built right now. The only difference with Trump's wall is the scale and the fact he claims he can get Mexico to pay for it.

* Sorry not-sorry.
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Old 18 October 2016, 05:46 PM
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If I may...

3) Anti-Mexican/ suspicion of immigrants has been around for a long time. Complaint about illegal immigrants is newer but did not start in July 2015.
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Old 18 October 2016, 06:17 PM
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Clinton's slogans are:

Stronger Together
I'm with Her

Lots of people follow Trump just to see what ridiculous thing he says next; I don't but I know many people who do. Twitter is breeding ground for the kind of trolling Trump does.

Policy proposals from Hillary Clinton:

1. Save Social Security by raising the income threshold for which you are required to contribute
2. Increase taxes on those making more than $250,000/year to reduce the burden on those in lower income brackets

If you haven't heard much about policy, I don't think that's really Clinton's fault.
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Old 18 October 2016, 06:26 PM
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Yeah, she has 9.8M twitter followers. That's not a paltry sum. But she has not even 10K tweets. She's not super duper engaged with twitter as part of her non-political life.

He tweets like he's a drunk monkey with a typewriter, which is amazing since he's a teetotaler. He has 33K+ tweets. Most of which are spouting off nonsense.

ETA: Her cultural impacts aren't super flashy. Like improving pre-school education for millions of low income kids by providing better parenting resources to allow parents to be effective as their child's first educator. Like improving access to public education for children with disabilities. Like providing low income children with low cost health insurance through state subsidized insurance pools.
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Old 19 October 2016, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Billion View Post
If you find it so uninteresting, it's very strange you went out of your way to comment on it.
I didn't mean interesting in a personal sense. I was trying to ask what the context is for the comparison. It's a bit like asking "who would win in a fight between..." or "who owns more pants suits..." Of course it's fun to think about but I don't see what it has to do with anything else. I wasn't critiquing you for asking the question, despite my clumsy wording. If you can't answer, that's fine.
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Old 19 October 2016, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiandmoi View Post
Yeah, she has 9.8M twitter followers. That's not a paltry sum. But she has not even 10K tweets. She's not super duper engaged with twitter as part of her non-political life.

He tweets like he's a drunk monkey with a typewriter, which is amazing since he's a teetotaler. He has 33K+ tweets. Most of which are spouting off nonsense.

ETA: Her cultural impacts aren't super flashy. Like improving pre-school education for millions of low income kids by providing better parenting resources to allow parents to be effective as their child's first educator. Like improving access to public education for children with disabilities. Like providing low income children with low cost health insurance through state subsidized insurance pools.
Yep, cultural impact is much more than popularity or notoriety. An example: the 3D film Avatar was super popular and was one of the highest selling movies of all time but after a few years it's almost completely dropped off the cultural radar. Pop culture phenomena such as the Terminator and the Simpsons and even Jaws get referenced and quoted and parodied all the time but you hardly ever see any references to Avatar these days. Its popularity at the time was immense but its cultural impact was tiny.
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Old 19 October 2016, 12:20 PM
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Other policies of hers include:

Free in-state college for families with income under a certain margin (is it $150k?).

Raising the minimum wage to $15 (originally $12, but Sanders shifted her).

Public option on the healthcare exchanges.

Funding alternative energy sources.

The difference in terms of Clinton's policies and Trump's is that Clinton is a massive policy nerd whereas Trump is a reality TV star. Her policies are extensive and developed and supported by evidence, but can't be easily summed up in sound bites. Trump practically only has sound bites.
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