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  #21  
Old 07 February 2008, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by DemonWolf View Post
Ex 13:18 doesn't count?
But that, again, is a translation, based upon the original translation from ancient Hebrew, and so the error of translating sea of reeds to Red Sea is just being repeated.

The various explanations for how the Hebrews making a crossing in a large marshy area with many reedy bodies of water is more likely to have happened than a parting at The Red Sea seems vastly more feasible than the opposing arguements, to me.

YMMV, obviously.
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  #22  
Old 07 February 2008, 03:23 PM
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All of this, of course, is dependent on such an event actually occurring. By that, I of course am referring to the notion that the Egyptians kept the Hebrews as slaves and they all escaped. As far as I have been able to tell, It has never been proven, since no evidence has been uncovered to lead one to believe that an exodus happened. The kind of exodus the bible talks about would make it pretty hard to believe that they moved around and left no evidence.

I recall Penn and Teller clearly stating that there is no evidence that the Hebrews were even slaves.
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  #23  
Old 07 February 2008, 03:38 PM
Magdalene Magdalene is offline
 
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OK, I have a question--if it was the Sea of Reeds vs. the Red Sea, and no parting of either body happened, then how did the Hebrews get across and the Egyptians couldn't follow?

Magdalene
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  #24  
Old 07 February 2008, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by diddy View Post
All of this, of course, is dependent on such an event actually occurring. By that, I of course am referring to the notion that the Egyptians kept the Hebrews as slaves and they all escaped. As far as I have been able to tell, It has never been proven, since no evidence has been uncovered to lead one to believe that an exodus happened. The kind of exodus the bible talks about would make it pretty hard to believe that they moved around and left no evidence.

I recall Penn and Teller clearly stating that there is no evidence that the Hebrews were even slaves.
Well, and that's where the whole thing moves too far in the opposite direction to suit me. Squarely in the middle I am.

The OT Hebrew scriptures are nothing more and nothing less, than the stories of a people, that were oral tradition for hundreds of years (the same as every preliterate society) of the history of themselves and their relationship with their God. Later as the society became literate, the stories were written down, and eventually became consolidated and redacted into one single group of writings.

There is no reason to think that a group of ancient people invented a bunch of deliberately fictional stories just for the hell of it and to impose a falsehood on generations of people to be born thousands of years later, either.

The most objective and reasonable explanation, IMO, is that, important events happened in the lives of these Hebrew peoples that were preserved, first orally, then written. Interpretations and analysis of these events became part of the stories: due to many factors including the separation of the Northern and Southern tribes, slightly differing versions of the stories evolved (but all were included by the redactors, thus the multiple versions of some events) and what we have left, is a collection of writings that - regardless of the amount of actual historical fact - do contain deeply profound philosophical concepts reflecting the nature of the Hebrews to love and cherish life long discussions and explorations of this nature.

While the history and intent of the writings was for themselves alone, the universal nature of their observation of human behavior makes the works exactly what it has been - a huge influence on religion, for the past 4000 years.


Again, people either trying to prove it all happened inerrantly and literally, or those who can't be satisfied unless presented with evidence on a level so demanding that most antiquities can't satisfy it completely anyway, are, to me, just opposite ends of extremes that both contradict my view that faith has nothing to do with proof and in fact, depending on scientific data to support a religion is a disservice to both.

again. YMMV.
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  #25  
Old 07 February 2008, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Magdalene View Post
OK, I have a question--if it was the Sea of Reeds vs. the Red Sea, and no parting of either body happened, then how did the Hebrews get across and the Egyptians couldn't follow?

Magdalene
Well, who ever said the only way to elude your captors would require crossing a body of water at all. I admit that doing the whole population at once would be difficult, and pretty soon the owners would wise up to a gradual exodus, but it isn't impossible.

Of course, again, it assumes that the Hebrews in question were kept as slaves and the Pharaoh decided to let them go.
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  #26  
Old 07 February 2008, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Magdalene View Post
OK, I have a question--if it was the Sea of Reeds vs. the Red Sea, and no parting of either body happened, then how did the Hebrews get across and the Egyptians couldn't follow?

Magdalene

Tides or winds could have made crossings easier or harder in marshy reedy bodies, changing the water levels. People can drown in shallow swamps as well as deep vast seas.

If you believe that God was supernaturally facilitating their escape, it doesn't matter much the exact details, and if you don't, then, it doesn't matter anyway.
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  #27  
Old 07 February 2008, 03:58 PM
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If you believe that God was supernaturally facilitating their escape, it doesn't matter much the exact details, and if you don't, then, it doesn't matter anyway.
I always figured that if God was already willing to move a sea, he would just magically relocate the Hebrews to their new homeland instead of letting them wander around for 40 years. But thats just me.
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  #28  
Old 07 February 2008, 04:09 PM
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Coral does not grow on gold, hence the shape has remained very distinct, although the wood inside the gold veneer has disintegrated making them too fragile to move.
Translation: Here's a picture of it, but don't try to verify it.
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  #29  
Old 07 February 2008, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Magdalene View Post
OK, I have a question--if it was the Sea of Reeds vs. the Red Sea, and no parting of either body happened, then how did the Hebrews get across and the Egyptians couldn't follow?

Magdalene
Booth Attendant: Hold it, Pharaoh. It's a shekel to cross.

Pharaoh: Oh, for the love of--here, here's a ten-tekel bill.

Booth Attendant: Exact change only.

Pharaoh: Fine. Just fine. Any of you guys got any change? . . . OH, COME ON!
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  #30  
Old 07 February 2008, 04:33 PM
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In regards to the claim that coral does not grow on gold, this site shows photos of gold bars (click on Item #), one of which is described as:

Quote:
About one-third of the surface of the bar is covered in white coral encrustation (very attractive and desirable to show provenance), with coral also covering the cut end, some red and and black staining but not distracting.
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  #31  
Old 07 February 2008, 04:35 PM
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Brad from Georgia writes:

Quote:
Booth Attendant: Hold it, Pharaoh. It's a shekel to cross.

Pharaoh: Oh, for the love of--here, here's a ten-tekel bill.

Booth Attendant: Exact change only.

Pharaoh: Fine. Just fine. Any of you guys got any change? . . . OH, COME ON!
And the famous Hebrew scholar Melvin Brooks reused this dialogue in his western documentary, Blazing Saddles.



Ali "you'd do it for Randolph Scott" Infree
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  #32  
Old 07 February 2008, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Ali Infree View Post
Well, what about the bones? Bones are found in the water al ot, aren't they?
Bones break down very quickly in the ocean. In shallow, warm water, they break down faster; in cold, deep water they can last longer. Even so, very few skeletons are found in shipwrecks: the minerals simply dissolve too readily in salt water. (There's a lot of chemistry involved that I simply do not grok; salt water is "ion rich" and this helps it rip compounds apart. I wish I could state that correctly!)

For fun (although it's a bit gross) next time you have chicken wings, save an ulna and seal it in a jar of salt water. (Um...label it: "science experiment," so someone won't think it's chicken soup and drink it...) Chuck it in the back of a shelf somewhere and then come back and check it out in a couple of years.

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Or were they addicted to the manna? Hmmmm.
Who says there's no such thing as a free lunch?

Silas
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  #33  
Old 07 February 2008, 06:01 PM
Nick Theodorakis Nick Theodorakis is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silas Sparkhammer View Post
...
For fun (although it's a bit gross) next time you have chicken wings, save an ulna and seal it in a jar of salt water. (Um...label it: "science experiment," so someone won't think it's chicken soup and drink it...) Chuck it in the back of a shelf somewhere and then come back and check it out in a couple of years.
...
I'd try that except that I always get the radius and the ulna mixed up. I wouldn't want to screw up the experiment.

Nick
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  #34  
Old 07 February 2008, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silas Sparkhammer View Post
For fun (although it's a bit gross) next time you have chicken wings, save an ulna and seal it in a jar of salt water. (Um...label it: "science experiment," so someone won't think it's chicken soup and drink it...) Chuck it in the back of a shelf somewhere and then come back and check it out in a couple of years.



Silas
I think someone has already done that in the back of the third shelf of my Frigidaire...
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  #35  
Old 07 February 2008, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by diddy View Post
I always figured that if God was already willing to move a sea, he would just magically relocate the Hebrews to their new homeland instead of letting them wander around for 40 years. But thats just me.
It was a test.

anytime God doesn't make something as easy as it could be it is a test.


Either that or a wizard did it.
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  #36  
Old 07 February 2008, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by snapdragonfly View Post
I think someone has already done that in the back of the third shelf of my Frigidaire...
Is that what that was? I though the reason it tasted so nasty was because my dad can't cook to save his life.
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  #37  
Old 07 February 2008, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by DemonWolf View Post
Either that or a wizard did it.
At least the egyptians had that right. At least one was there to tun the staff int a serpant thing. Wonder why he couldn't just part the red sea too? Guess he just stayed at home that night.
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  #38  
Old 07 February 2008, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by diddy View Post
At least the egyptians had that right. At least one was there to tun the staff int a serpant thing. Wonder why he couldn't just part the red sea too? Guess he just stayed at home that night.
Maybe all the Egyptian wizards were all first born sons.
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  #39  
Old 07 February 2008, 06:47 PM
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Aimee Evilpixie Aimee Evilpixie is offline
 
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Originally Posted by DemonWolf View Post
Maybe all the Egyptian wizards were all first born sons.
No, everyone knows the really good wizards are eighth sons of eight sons.

Unless that eighth son turns out to be a daughter and you don't find out until after the old wizard passes on his magic.
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  #40  
Old 07 February 2008, 07:10 PM
SoToasty SoToasty is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silas Sparkhammer View Post
For fun (although it's a bit gross) next time you have chicken wings, save an ulna and seal it in a jar of salt water. (Um...label it: "science experiment," so someone won't think it's chicken soup and drink it...) Chuck it in the back of a shelf somewhere and then come back and check it out in a couple of years.

Silas
Damn you Silas. Now I am thinking about having chicken for dinner. I am not sure how the fish will take to the added decorations to their tank though. Or the wife for that matter.
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