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Old 08 February 2019, 02:19 PM
Jusenkyo no Pikachu Jusenkyo no Pikachu is offline
 
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Default The Law VS Willy Wonka

https://youtu.be/7Z1p7TMPXFM

Apparently discussing this subject is not new, but I stumbled onto it via that video.

I have a few issues with it:

First off, the contest is shown to affect the entire world, with tickets being found in America, Britain, Germany and explicitly not Argentina. That said, wherever Charlie lives is vaguely Western Europe (background details show a West German location, while the accents are all over the place and Charlie has a paper route. Also, “Slugworth” never specifies a currency when he confronts Charlie), although a newscast actually places it in America. I would in fact say it’s a bit hard to narrow the law down there when the net is so wide.

Second, while a point can be made that the river really should have been railed off (at least from the Oompa Loompa side), I have issue with the food safety part given that we see Wonka putting an old shoe into a formula and he has other bizarre processes for making candy. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that Augustus is saved from the fudge room, but who’s to say that Wonka doesn’t have treatment processes for all the rest of the chocolate?

Third, shouldn’t the Wondrous Boat Ride be an issue? I’ve not seen it mentioned in this video or elsewhere.

Fourth, I’m not going to dispute the whole oral contract thing (or the contract they sign at the beginning of the tour, which definitely demonstrates “frippery”), but exactly how was Wonka going to test the gum? We never see any awkwardly shaped Oompa Loompas, so either they’re elsewhere in the factory or they healed. Either way, Wonka can’t exactly machine test something so subjective and actually needs to figure out what turns them into blueberries.

Fifth, I don’t know if the Eggdicators should have been walled off, and Veruca was an idiot...but why are there steps leading up to the platform? Even if the Salts don’t sustain injuries, she kinda had this one coming, though, having very deliberately stood on a thing that is not designed to take her.

Sixth, Mike explicitly survives the Wonkavision with no ill effect. We never learn his ultimate fate beyond a statement from Wonka, but the only issue is that he gets shrunk (whereas all the other kids get some form of suffering).

Finally, I have no clue on the labour laws. I don’t think there are any provisions for uplifting a country’s entire population and putting them in a factory, but they seem happy with the situation.
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  #2  
Old 11 February 2019, 06:38 AM
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Don Enrico Don Enrico is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jusenkyo no Pikachu View Post
https://youtu.be/7Z1p7TMPXFM

Apparently discussing this subject is not new, but I stumbled onto it via that video.

I have a few issues with it:

First off, ...
Jusenkyo no Pikachu, you did it again. What is "this subject" you want to discuss? I can't watch the video (I'm at work). I might be inclined to try and open the video at another time if the topic sounds interesting to me (you even mention it being connected to Germany somehow), but you give me no clue whatsoever what your post is about.

Please, don't do that.
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  #3  
Old 11 February 2019, 03:11 PM
Jusenkyo no Pikachu Jusenkyo no Pikachu is offline
 
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It’s about legal issues that the movie Willy Wonka And The Chocolate Factory ignores.

The movie was filmed in Munich, with Charlie’s city showing German text in the background. Meanwhile, Charlie interacts with at least one Brit (Mr Turkentine), who parodies every primary school teacher ever (“I've just decided to switch our Friday schedule to Monday, which means that the test we take each Friday on what we learned during the week will now take place on Monday before we've learned it. But since today is Tuesday, it doesn't matter in the slightest.”). The idea was to create a vague city that could presumably be England (where the book is set).

Augustus hails from Germany, Veruca hails from England, Mike and Violet (and maybe Charlie and Wonka) hail from America IIRC, while the fifth ticket is “found” in Argentina. That’s four different countries on three continents. Remember, Wonka doesn’t license his brand, thanks to Slugworth, so the competition has to be worldwide.

Also, I have to wonder: is the movie known in Germany? I can only comment here with the assumption that it’s known everywhere. Here, it’s a childhood staple in book and movie form (but don’t bother with the Depp film. It’s closer to the text, but it doesn’t have the same charm).
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Old 11 February 2019, 04:31 PM
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I haven't watched the video.

It is entirely unremarkable for a work of fiction to ignore the law. Even more so for a work of fiction directed at children.

It might be somewhat interesting to discuss the legal issues, but it would be a very different work if it didn't ignore the law. Even legal dramas frequently ignore the law, by the way.
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Old 11 February 2019, 05:21 PM
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Since I watch Leonard French's "Lawful Masses" channel, I've seen this video crop up in my recommendations list more than a few times. I've not seen it because my first impression to the topic title is now what it was then: What's the point?

It would be like explaining how virtually every movie and TV cop would be fired at some point in their career if they actually did what they did as a real cop.


~Psihala
(*"You... you mean its not real?")
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Old 11 February 2019, 05:47 PM
Meka Meka is offline
 
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Oddly enough, I watched the video this morning, before I came across this thread.

The one criticism that stuck out to me as possibly being off base was the fizzy lifting drinks room. I assumed he was going to ding Wonka with another OSHA violation for the fan blades not being behind a protective screen. To me, it doesn't look like the fan vents anywhere - certainly not directly outside - and I don't know what in the room would be considered a pollutant in any case (the bubbles?) so I'm not sure why he brings in environmental law.
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Old 11 February 2019, 10:53 PM
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ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
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This reminds me of something that's always bothered me about the movie Babe. I'm no zoologist but I don't think animals can really talk to each other, especially in English.
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Old 11 February 2019, 11:03 PM
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The prologue to the movie showed how the previous farmer raised babelfish in the pond by the barn.
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Old 12 February 2019, 01:50 AM
Jusenkyo no Pikachu Jusenkyo no Pikachu is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
This reminds me of something that's always bothered me about the movie Babe. I'm no zoologist but I don't think animals can really talk to each other, especially in English.
Yes, well, I’m no doctor but I do believe that Harry and Marv were killed several times over in Home Alone.
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Old 12 February 2019, 02:07 AM
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It's guys like the YouTuber in the OP that were probably behind getting superheros outlawed in the first Incredibles movie.

~Psihala
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Old 12 February 2019, 02:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
The prologue to the movie showed how the previous farmer raised babelfish in the pond by the barn.
That explains the most frustrating thing about the movie: its refusal to reside anywhere on the English language dialect map. Turns out it was all translated form another language. (Good work on the puns, babelfishies.)
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Old 12 February 2019, 03:22 AM
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It should be clarified that the OP isn't a video about complaining that Willy Wonka isn't legally accurate, but of a lawyer engaging in a sort of 'watch a movie and examine it for law violations' exercise for informational & entertainment purposes.
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Old 12 February 2019, 05:27 AM
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My bad. I was going off on a tangent. Not really commenting on the OP.
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Old 12 February 2019, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jusenkyo no Pikachu View Post
Also, I have to wonder: is the movie known in Germany? I can only comment here with the assumption that it’s known everywhere. Here, it’s a childhood staple in book and movie form (but don’t bother with the Depp film. It’s closer to the text, but it doesn’t have the same charm).
The story and the movie are known in Germany mainly since the Johnny Depp movie. Roald Dahls books are not as well known as they should be, and I certainly wouldn't consider them "childhood staples", although I read a translated version of "Danny the Champion of the World" as a child and loved it (still love it and have been reading it to my kids). The BFG has become better known lately, again because of the movie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spud Sabre View Post
... a lawyer engaging in a sort of 'watch a movie and examine it for law violations' exercise for informational & entertainment purposes.
That practise is known here, too, especially among law students. I had books taking apart well known fairy tales in legal style when I was in university - and let me tell you, it doesn't end well for Hänsel and Gretel: killing the whitch wasn't covered by self defense!

The problem with these books for me was that to teach you legal writing style, they had to be based on modern law. But since the fairy tales are set in a medieval world, medieval law would have been more appropriate to the stories - Hänsel and Gretel probably would have been in their right when killing the witch under medieval German "feud" laws.

I guess it's the same with Willy Wonka - in a world where you can blow up or shrink people without otherwise harming them, applying real-world law (of any country) makes sense only as an intellectual exercise.
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Old 12 February 2019, 06:38 AM
Jusenkyo no Pikachu Jusenkyo no Pikachu is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spud Sabre View Post
It should be clarified that the OP isn't a video about complaining that Willy Wonka isn't legally accurate, but of a lawyer engaging in a sort of 'watch a movie and examine it for law violations' exercise for informational & entertainment purposes.
He actually has a separate series examining artistic license in courtroom shows. The one that really got to him was How To Get Away With Murder. And that’s after the derived-from-a-game-mechanic proceedings in the Ace Attorney anime (his viewing of which hasn’t gone past the first episode. I’m not a lawyer, but even I know that the franchise gets downright dippy).
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Old 12 February 2019, 11:08 AM
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It seems to be (as far as I watched, admittedly not to the end) almost entirely from a prosecutor (or plaintiff) point of view. I would have been much more interested in the other side. For example, I'm pretty sure almost anyone without a law degree would guess that too much overtime or minors signing contracts are naughty and can get one in hot water but we also know it happens every day.

The whole point of the movie (IMO) is to go way over the top so none of that is surprising to me. The contract, for example, goes down to fine print that can't be read. We know it's not legal. That's the joke of the movie. But EULA's are written very much like that in many cases. Even if one could spend the time, no one does. So I would have liked to know what a good lawyer would argue in defense of each of these (rather extremely obvious) offenses rather than "Oh, boy, he'd really be in trouble for that..." (Gee, really? Who knew you can't boil a kid alive in chocolate?? Thank you, lawyer.)
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Old 12 February 2019, 01:45 PM
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So you’re saying you’d like to see sometching like this Consumer Probe skit from SNL, but slightly more sincere on the part of the sleazy guy defending it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veMiNQifZcM
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  #18  
Old 13 February 2019, 05:19 AM
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Well, maybe not to that extent but I thought it was way too simplistic and even (IANAL but even I can see) wrong. For example he falsely (AIUI) claimed that the FLSA prohibits Charlie from having a paper route job. The FLSA explicitly exempts paper delivery jobs. So it would have helped to have a bit of back and forth (it could be illegal in some states, for example) both to make it more interesting and more accurate. Don't get me started on overtime and all that. I just found it extremely difficult to believe the "well, that's that, he'd be in deep water for that one!" attitude. If it were that simple, there'd be no need for lawyers.
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Old 13 February 2019, 12:06 PM
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According to Doc Brown of Back to the Future II, they were supposed to have abolished all lawyers by now. Maybe he’s commenting from an alternative timeline where that holds true?
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