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  #21  
Old 09 March 2008, 06:39 PM
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Wasn't The Lion King the first Disney movie not to be based on someone else's original work? Nearly every movie the Disney company has produced has been based on other source material, be it a fairy tale or a previously published book by an independent (non-Disney-affiliated) author. Seems like the blame is being put in the wrong place.

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101 Dalmations had Perdita (sp?) survive. After dropping a litter of 99 BYB puppies.
In the Disney movie, her litter was 15. The other puppies were Cruella's that had been stolen from pet stores and local famlies.

In the original book by Dodie Smith, Pongo has a litter of 15 with his mate, Missis. The humans (the Dearlys) call their vet and other dog owners, looking for a possible "foster mother" because Missis doesn't have enough milk. As it happens, one day they find Perdita lying out on a country road, emaciated and abused. She has recently given birth and still has milk left, so she is nursed back to health and then gradually introduced to some of the puppies. There is concern that she and Missis will fight so they're kept separated for some time, but eventually the three adult dogs and 15 puppies get along. (The backstory is that Perdita was treated badly by her original owner and her litter of 8 was sold to Cruella, so she went out looking for them. At the end she is reunited with them.) So there are actually two dog mothers in the original book.
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  #22  
Old 09 March 2008, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Mickey is a gyrl View Post
Though, technically, it wasn't Disney that killed Tarzan's mother- it was Edgar Rice Burroughs.
Both his human parents die, but he gets adopted by a gorilla. I don't know if it counts to say he doesn't have a mother--not a human mother, no, but he does have a gorilla mother.
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  #23  
Old 09 March 2008, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cervus View Post
Wasn't The Lion King the first Disney movie not to be based on someone else's original work?
Sure, if you ignore Hamlet and quite possibly Kimba.
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  #24  
Old 09 March 2008, 11:33 PM
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I used to argue that Tolkien was the King of the Matricides. Most of his characters in Lord of the Rings have dead mamas - including the elves.

But Artemis is right: the motherless hero is an old, old European storybook convention. The apron strings have to be cut before the protagonist can go out adventuring.
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  #25  
Old 10 March 2008, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Christie View Post
Which makes it less than coincidental that the same actor almost invariably plays Captain Hook (not in the Disney cartoon of course!) -- it may, of course, be to have a smaller cast -- but I've always believed there was a deeper message at work there.
The father and Hook are the same (voice) actor in the Disney version, as well.
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  #26  
Old 10 March 2008, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cervus View Post
Wasn't The Lion King the first Disney movie not to be based on someone else's original work?
No. The Aristocats is one. (I had the Fox and the Hound, too, before edit. Never trust the Internet.)
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  #27  
Old 10 March 2008, 12:44 AM
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Hercules has both god parents and adopted human parents. The people with relatives just seem to hog them from everyone else, don't they?


(And, yes, yes, I know it's terribly innaccurate.)
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  #28  
Old 10 March 2008, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
The father and Hook are the same (voice) actor in the Disney version, as well.
That's traditional in all versions of "Peter Pan", though. In every play, every movie, he's the same voice/actor. I don't remember the exact metaphor, but it's supposed to be representative of the father trying to pirate Wendy, John and Michael's childhood and make them be "grown up" when they don't want to. Kind of like how Hook tries to ruin the Lost Boys' happiness and childhood.
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  #29  
Old 10 March 2008, 01:59 AM
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Also, Herbie the Love Bug's mother died in an unfortunate collision with a Nazi officer's car in 1940. (It's one of those little-known facts. Not trying to Godwinize or anything.)
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  #30  
Old 10 March 2008, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cervus View Post
In the original book by Dodie Smith, Pongo has a litter of 15 with his mate, Missis. The humans (the Dearlys) call their vet and other dog owners, looking for a possible "foster mother" because Missis doesn't have enough milk. As it happens, one day they find Perdita lying out on a country road, emaciated and abused. She has recently given birth and still has milk left, so she is nursed back to health and then gradually introduced to some of the puppies. There is concern that she and Missis will fight so they're kept separated for some time, but eventually the three adult dogs and 15 puppies get along. (The backstory is that Perdita was treated badly by her original owner and her litter of 8 was sold to Cruella, so she went out looking for them. At the end she is reunited with them.) So there are actually two dog mothers in the original book.
It's been a long long long time since I've read the book. I remember what you said about bringing in a "wet nurse"; I thought Perdita was Pongo's bitch (sorry, had to get in the gratuitous swear), while Missis was the wet nurse. Wouldn't put it past Disney to switch the names to keep the alliteration, though.
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  #31  
Old 10 March 2008, 07:08 PM
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Actually, the basic story of Lady and the Tramp was original with Joe Grant, a Disney writer. Disney bought the rights to a story by Ward Greene called "Happy Dan, the Whistling Dog," because the character of Tramp was so close to that of Dan (who has a lady dog friend named Miss Patsy)--a pre-emptive strike, in a way. Lady and the Tramp has an original plot, in other words, and is not really based on a pre-existing book. Greene did novelize the script when the movie was made, however.
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  #32  
Old 10 March 2008, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horse Chestnut View Post
I used to argue that Tolkien was the King of the Matricides. Most of his characters in Lord of the Rings have dead mamas - including the elves.
I didn't think the Elf mothers died so much as sailed for the Gray Havens.
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  #33  
Old 10 March 2008, 07:13 PM
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"Mother, what do you expect to find in the Gray Havens?"

"Shopping, child. Shopping."
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  #34  
Old 10 March 2008, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad from Georgia View Post
"Mother, what do you expect to find in the Gray Havens?"

"Shopping, child. Shopping."
So the Galleria is patterned after the Gray Havens. This explains so much. Except the ice skating rink.
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  #35  
Old 10 March 2008, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama Duck View Post
I didn't think the Elf mothers died so much as sailed for the Gray Havens.
My memory may be bad, but didn't Arwen's mother die? That's the vibe I got anyway.


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Both his human parents die, but he gets adopted by a gorilla. I don't know if it counts to say he doesn't have a mother--not a human mother, no, but he does have a gorilla mother.
She was the only mother he really knew, so I would argue that yes, she was his mother. She doesn't get killed off in the Disney version, but his father does.
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  #36  
Old 10 March 2008, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LizzyBean View Post
She was the only mother he really knew, so I would argue that yes, she was his mother. She doesn't get killed off in the Disney version, but his father does.
At the very, very end. It's certainly not another "no parents, therefore free to have adventures" kind of story.
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  #37  
Old 10 March 2008, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LizzyBean View Post
My memory may be bad, but didn't Arwen's mother die? That's the vibe I got anyway.
Granted, I'm going off my admittedly fuzzy memory. But she was attacked by Orcs and sailed to the Gray Havens in order to forget the ordeal.

ETA: I'm not as fuzzy as I think am I! Or something like that.She did sail rather than die.
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  #38  
Old 11 March 2008, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimee Evilpixie View Post
At the very, very end. It's certainly not another "no parents, therefore free to have adventures" kind of story.
True, which was why I brought it up. I was trying to go against the "Disney kills off all the parents" bit. Guess I missed, eh?
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  #39  
Old 11 March 2008, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo. View Post
101 Dalmations had Perdita (sp?) survive. After dropping a litter of 99 BYB puppies.
IIRC, most of the pups were the ones rescued from Cruella's fur coat project.
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  #40  
Old 11 March 2008, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkhound View Post
IIRC, most of the pups were the ones rescued from Cruella's fur coat project.
That's been explained at least once in the thread already.
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