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Old 06 June 2015, 08:28 AM
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Graham2001 Graham2001 is offline
Join Date: 21 January 2006
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 747
Icon05 Man turns himself in for pedophilia after waking up sleeping with an underage girl.

I was listening to an Episode of the Monster Talk podcast which covered sleep paralysis and how it had been viewed through the ages. Part way through, the discussion turned to cases of parasomnias, one mentioned was of a man waking up and finding himself having intercourse with an underage girl. He then allegedly called the police and turned himself in.

Too few details were provided to identify the origin of the story, in this era of fake news sites, I'd rather have a pointer to the actual case.
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Old 06 June 2015, 08:54 PM
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geminilee geminilee is offline
Join Date: 02 December 2005
Location: New Orleans, LA
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I dont know of this particular case, but it raises an interesting (to me) legal point. IIRC, there have been cases where men were acquitted because they were legitimately asleep during the act, hence didn't have the mens rea to rape.

That sets up a strange duality. The women in the cases were raped, but no one raped them. I almost had a similar experience when my (then and still) ex took ambien for the first and only time. He attempted sex, but I was able to fight him off and convince him to go to sleep. My room had a lock, which I used for the only time that night. When I told him the next morning he was appalled, apologetic, and immediately called his doctor to tell him he would not be continuing that drug, and to phone in a different sleep aid. He returned the pills to the pharmacy for.destruction that evening.

Obviously, he was not.responsible for his actions, and I knew that. His actions when he found out showed that loud and clear. I still felt pretty violated, though.
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Old 06 June 2015, 09:49 PM
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erwins erwins is offline
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It's not even a mens rea issue. A crime is made up of two basic components: a mens rea (mental state), and an actus reus (criminal act). It's often an issue whether someone intended malice when they carried out an act, but that isn't the issue if the actor is asleep. The actus reus has to be a voluntary act. So a person can't be convicted of trespassing if he was carried onto the property in question against his will. Likewise, a person can't be convicted of assault for kicking someone as a reflex to being struck on the knee, even if they bear ill will toward the person who was kicked. In the case of acts performed while asleep, because the person is unconscious, they are not voluntary acts.*

So yes, it is strange that the victim was raped, but there was no rape. But that sentence only sounds strange because we are mixing terms. The victim was raped in the non-legal sense of the word, which is a perfectly legitimate sense, and a very important one to acknowledge. But there was no crime of rape committed, because what happened doesn't meet the legal definition. That doesn't mean that the victim wasn't the victim of a rape in the broader sense of the word.

* In some instances, you can back up from the involuntary act until you get to a voluntary act that is accompanied by a culpable mental state. So, for example, a person who knows that Ambien makes them assaultive could be guilty of a crime if they take it without ensuring that the people around them will be safe. So they wouldn't be committing a crime the first time they took it, but continuing to take it could be unless they take some clear and effective steps to prevent any assaults in the future. But the crime wouldn't be assault or rape or whatever, it would be something like reckless endangerment, because the culpable act would be taking the pill, not assaulting the victim.

Last edited by erwins; 06 June 2015 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 06 June 2015, 10:12 PM
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geminilee geminilee is offline
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Yes, I agree on your *. If my ex had continued taking the ambient, I would not only hold him accountable for future acts, but it would change my attitude to the first time as well.
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