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  #21  
Old 21 June 2017, 01:19 PM
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I just cannot understand why anyone would encourage a suicidal person to go through with it. I think anyone of us would be hauling the person to the ER, counseling, whatever it takes to prevent that person from going through with it.
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  #22  
Old 21 June 2017, 01:32 PM
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Toxic narcissism?
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  #23  
Old 21 June 2017, 08:29 PM
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Or just being in general an all-around NFBSKhole.
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  #24  
Old 21 June 2017, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallah View Post
The texts show deliberate, repeated coaching up to and including a command to get back in the truck after the young man attempted to abort his suicide attempt.
You're right, she definitely coached/coaxed him into it, and it was a morally reprehensible thing to do. But I'm still somehow troubled that she was found guilty in a death she wasn't present for. What if someone encourages a terminally ill person to commit euthanasia in a state where it isn't legal? Is that also involuntary manslaughter?
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  #25  
Old 21 June 2017, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Pink Pill View Post
You're right, she definitely coached/coaxed him into it, and it was a morally reprehensible thing to do. But I'm still somehow troubled that she was found guilty in a death she wasn't present for.
Maybe not physically, but she was very much present on his phone, and more importantly, in his head.

Quote:
What if someone encourages a terminally ill person to commit euthanasia in a state where it isn't legal? Is that also involuntary manslaughter?
Wouldn't surprise me a bit if someone had charges brought against them if the same electronic trail existed. I'm pretty certain there are DAs out there would give such charges serious consideration under those circumstances.
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  #26  
Old 21 June 2017, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Pink Pill View Post
What if someone encourages a terminally ill person to commit euthanasia in a state where it isn't legal? Is that also involuntary manslaughter?
For me, that would be also be reprehensible. Euthanasia should be left to the terminally ill person and their doctor(s). No matter what physical or mental state a person is in, another person should not be encouraging them to end their life.
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  #27  
Old 21 June 2017, 11:43 PM
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I think people who really have good reasons to consider euthanasia should be able to talk it over with their families/close friends if they choose, without worrying that those people would then be liable to be prosecuted for murder. And if they want their loved one(s) holding their hands when/if it happens, and the person(s) they want there feel able to deal with it, that should be possible too. People wind up dying alone, and badly, and severely shocking their friends/families, because it isn't legal in many places to tell them.

I don't think, from what I've read about it, that this is in any way a comparable case. It doesn't sound as if the victim was terminal, was in chronic severe untreatable pain, had a degenerative disease that would take his ability to decide from him, or anything else of the sort. It doesn't even sound as if he consistently seriously wanted to die.
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  #28  
Old 22 June 2017, 12:58 AM
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I don't think it's comparable morally, though I tend to agree with GenYus that no one should be actively encouraging anyone to kill themselves. Presumably a friend or relative would have the patient's best interest in mind, but if this sets a precedent that words can kill, it seems like, as Dr Rocket said, someone could get in trouble for it now, regardless of their motive.

It's not my field of expertise, and maybe that's the best the prosecution could do under the laws in that state, but it just doesn't seem like involuntary manslaughter is the crime she actually committed. It wasn't involuntary, and she didn't kill him with actions.

Could it be construed as incitement to violence or something? She did technically encourage him to harm someone.
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  #29  
Old 22 June 2017, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
And if they want their loved one(s) holding their hands when/if it happens, and the person(s) they want there feel able to deal with it, that should be possible too. People wind up dying alone, and badly, and severely shocking their friends/families, because it isn't legal in many places to tell them.

I don't think, from what I've read about it, that this is in any way a comparable case.
Indeed. Far from "holding his hand," it was more like she was prodding him along towards the edge.
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  #30  
Old 22 June 2017, 12:06 PM
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There are countless families out there that have told terminally ill family members "it's time to let go".

OY
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  #31  
Old 22 June 2017, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by overyonder View Post
There are countless families out there that have told terminally ill family members "it's time to let go".

OY
And when my 92YO mother was bedridden, incontinent and miserable, and started saying "I wish I could just go now" and "I wish I didn't wake up this morning," I said "It's okay to go if you want to, you don't have to hold on for our sakes."

Are you seriously comparing that to what the young women in the OP did? I'll skip the anger emoji in case you just haven't made yourself clear.
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  #32  
Old 22 June 2017, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overyonder View Post
There are countless families out there that have told terminally ill family members "it's time to let go".

OY
That is not the same thing though as encouraging someone who is terminally ill to choose to end their life. Not taking heroic measures to prolong a life is not comparable to euthanasia. And I would sincerely hope that if we are talking about euthanasia that someone who discovers that a terminally ill family member or friend has changed their mind at the brink of finality would tell them that is their right not tell them the equivalent of 'get back in the car'.

Last edited by Sue; 22 June 2017 at 01:16 PM.
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  #33  
Old 22 June 2017, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
Are you seriously comparing that to what the young women in the OP did? I'll skip the anger emoji in case you just haven't made yourself clear.
Lainie, I'm not sure who that's addressed to; but I was trying to make it quite clear that I do not think the cases comparable.

I, and possibly others in this thread, was/were responding to GenYus, who, if I understood the post correctly, was saying that there are no circumstances whatsoever in which anyone other than the person's physician should cooperate with a person's suicide.

ETA: and I fully agree that if the person desiring to choose their own death, even under circumstances in which I feel such cooperation is proper, says 'no, not right now after all' or 'not at all after all' then the proper response is along the lines of 'OK, not now (or not at all) then.' and most certainly is not the equivalent of 'get back in the car'.

Last edited by thorny locust; 22 June 2017 at 01:26 PM.
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  #34  
Old 22 June 2017, 01:43 PM
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I was responding to Overyonder. ETA: That's why I quoted him.
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  #35  
Old 22 June 2017, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
I, and possibly others in this thread, was/were responding to GenYus, who, if I understood the post correctly, was saying that there are no circumstances whatsoever in which anyone other than the person's physician should cooperate with a person's suicide.
You did not understand the post correctly. I was saying that I objected to anyone encouraging someone to end their life no matter what the circumstances. That is a far place from cooperating. IOW:

Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
ETA: and I fully agree that if the person desiring to choose their own death, even under circumstances in which I feel such cooperation is proper, says 'no, not right now after all' or 'not at all after all' then the proper response is along the lines of 'OK, not now (or not at all) then.' and most certainly is not the equivalent of 'get back in the car'.
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  #36  
Old 22 June 2017, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
Are you seriously comparing that to what the young women in the OP did? I'll skip the anger emoji in case you just haven't made yourself clear.
Quite the opposite. I was referencing a previous post [which I can't seem to find] where someone said "no one should ever encourage anyone to end their life". When my gravely ill (from cancer) uncle was under heavy morphine and grasping for life while his kidneys were peeing blood, I had no problem telling him 'It's OK to let go'.

The statement "no one should never encourage" is too broad.

OY
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  #37  
Old 22 June 2017, 05:02 PM
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Gotcha. Sorry for my reaction, it's a sensitive subject but I should have given you more credit.
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  #38  
Old 22 June 2017, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overyonder View Post
I was referencing a previous post [which I can't seem to find] where someone said "no one should ever encourage anyone to end their life". When my gravely ill (from cancer) uncle was under heavy morphine and grasping for life while his kidneys were peeing blood, I had no problem telling him 'It's OK to let go'.
I had said that in agreement with GenYus's post and in the context of this conversation. No one here ever said that loving, end of life discussions were the same thing as "get back in the truck." In fact, I was concerned that this case could open the door for the prosecution of loved ones who verbally support a euthanasia decision.
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  #39  
Old 04 August 2017, 05:36 PM
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Default Woman sentenced to 15 months in texting suicide case

Michelle Carter, whose own words helped seal her involuntary manslaughter conviction in the suicide of her teenage boyfriend, was sentenced to 15 months in a Massachusetts jail Thursday -- but will remain free pending appeals.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/03/us/mic...ing/index.html
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  #40  
Old 04 August 2017, 06:26 PM
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You know, this is one case where I really do think she now gets it. Of course, being under treatment for her own mental health issues probably helps.

Seaboe
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