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  #21  
Old 08 June 2007, 02:35 PM
NovaSS
 
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Its called " theft of service".

When the Navy was using inductive pick ups to tap into soviet military communication cables they claimed the same thing, since they had not broken into the cable they were not spying. The pick ups were just getting stray signles radiating away from the cable.

But then again, the government can do anything they want. Try doing that with HBO
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  #22  
Old 14 June 2007, 09:47 AM
Ajay
 
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Talking about induction, there's a wireless charging pad coming onto the market next month. It'll charge gadgets by induction - when gadget manufacturers start incorporating the right circuitry.

The wireless charging pad & How it works
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  #23  
Old 14 June 2014, 11:15 PM
aspicer aspicer is offline
 
 
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Default Umm that's not how it works ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug4.7 View Post
That is exactly what a transformer does. The wires in your house are (DC) electrically isolated from the wires on the power lines in front of your house. A transformer takes the powerline wires and induces a current/voltage in your house lines. So your lines are not "touching" those of the power company, but you still have to pay.

They were able to show that there was a power loss from the lines that the person was using to power their house. So he was "stealing power" form the lines.
I'm surprised no one "snoped" you for this but this is not how it works. The pole transformer serving you, and possibly a dozen other homes has a stepped down side from a higher voltage distribution line. 120 v, 120 v, and neutral lines run behind or in front of your home. Your line to your house and meter and the wires inside of your house has been hot clamped (connected) directly to the transformer 240 v lines on the poles. There is no induction into the wires in your house. Don't be silly. :-)
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  #24  
Old 14 June 2014, 11:46 PM
aspicer aspicer is offline
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug4.7 View Post
In the cases my Dad talks about, they did get them for stealing power. Something about getting electricity from the power company without a meter.
You cannot benefit from the power generated by the electric co in your area without a meter being in that line (circuit) to meter it for billing purposes by that electric company.

Similarly if the cable TV co happened to be leaking signal from their coax cable lines - you could not legally receive that signal and enjoy cable TV service without paying for it.

Similarly, lets say the water co or cooperative was leaking water from a line nearby your property. I don't think you could make some facility to catch that water and supply it to your property to cut down on your metered water that you normally should be using.

You can go outside when it is raining and take a shower - assuming you don't violate some nudity law in your area. And perhaps if you lived near a lake, or the lake (like we have in Florida) that supplies most everyone's water, you could get water from the lake for free.
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  #25  
Old 16 June 2014, 08:00 AM
jimmy101_again jimmy101_again is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug4.7 View Post
That is exactly what a transformer does. The wires in your house are (DC) electrically isolated from the wires on the power lines in front of your house. A transformer takes the powerline wires and induces a current/voltage in your house lines. So your lines are not "touching" those of the power company, but you still have to pay.
Actually no. The lines in your house are all AC, not DC. You can't get DC out of a transformer. A transformer can step up (or down) AC voltages but they don't work with DC and cant produce DC.

In a typical US home electrical system "your" wires do indeed make direct contact with the electrical company's wires. Yes there is a supply transformer nearby but all the wires into and out of that transformer are owned by the electric company, not by you. What you own is everything downstream of your meter and all of that is hard wired (no coupling or step up/down transformers).
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  #26  
Old 16 June 2014, 11:57 AM
Singing in the Drizzle Singing in the Drizzle is offline
 
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It is correct to say the wires are isolated from each other. They have to be for induction to work, but they still need to be as closes as possible to work efficiently.
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  #27  
Old 16 June 2014, 01:19 PM
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Richard W Richard W is offline
 
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But the point that aspicer and jimmy_101 are making is that the transformer for the domestic power supply is owned by the electricity company or the network and isn't physically on your property. The wires in the transformer are isolated from each other and a current is created by induction, yes, but the wires coming out of the transformer are at the correct voltage for domestic power, and are not owned by the householder. The wires that are owned by the householder connect directly to them at the right voltage with no induction involved.

(In the US apparently - I'm taking their word for it, and I assume it works in a similar way here. You wouldn't want a power-line voltage going near your own fuse box if you could at all avoid it, I wouldn't think!)
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  #28  
Old 16 June 2014, 03:15 PM
RichardM RichardM is offline
 
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Well, except for large factories that take power at high voltages and then have their own transformers through out. And as to who owns what lines varies from power company to power company. The general rule is that you own from the meter inside and they own the meter and back to the transformer. But that isn't always the case. Sometimes the customer is responsible, i.e. owns, all the way back to the transformer. An example of this would be a large estate of a few acres. The power company will bring power to the property line and the owner has to take it from there. For a cite, I would have to go find the plans I prepared and signed and sealed a few years ago.

ETA, my own house may be like that although I have only 1 acre, not a few. There is an underground junction box at the property line. I think I am responsible for every thing down stream of that.
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  #29  
Old 17 June 2014, 05:54 PM
UrbanLegends101 UrbanLegends101 is offline
 
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And sometimes, the customer owns the transformer, as well.

At one facility where I worked, we were fed with a 67kV three phase line. The transformer from 67KV down to, I believe it was, 4160VAC for distribution within our complex.

The power company metering was on the primary side of the transformer, and they liked that, as all of the losses in the transformer were metered. If they billed us with metering on the secondary side of the transformer, they would have eat the energy lost in the transformer.
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  #30  
Old 17 June 2014, 07:28 PM
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You're using words like "large factories" and "complex"... Those might well be the customers of the electricity supplier and have their own transformer or high-voltage input, but I don't think they qualify as "domestic" or a home supply!

(eta) Also, if you own the transformer, then presumably you also own the input wires that are in direct contact with the electricity supplier's wires. Either that or there's a very bizarre ownership agreement where one of you owns one coil in the transformer, and the other owns the other.
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  #31  
Old 17 June 2014, 07:55 PM
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With each group owning alternating layers of the laminated iron core?
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  #32  
Old 17 June 2014, 11:28 PM
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Residential supplies - even for rural clients who may have 3-phase 120/208V into their garage/shop/farm - have the transformer and wires owned up until a demarcation point - usually the revenue meter - and everything downstream of this is owned by the property owner. If the transformer is shared, general utility guidelines require it to be owned by the utility. Now single users of all sizes - small businesses, large businesses, and even individual buildings - may have their own transformer, sometimes owned by the utility and sometimes owned by the customer, with varying demarcation points and locations of the meters. It's not consistent, perhaps because there's often a good reason to not interrupt power delivery and leave things as they have been for years if not decades.

I expect that if one has a large enough property, there would be a long enough line where one could set up inductive pickup of power - big enough to make a difference - and that this would all be upstream of the revenue meter and demarcation point. In other words, the meter is at the house, but the line from the road is hundreds of feet long. It would still be illegal, though it would be very difficult to detect.
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  #33  
Old 18 June 2014, 07:39 AM
UrbanLegends101 UrbanLegends101 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
You're using words like "large factories" and "complex"... Those might well be the customers of the electricity supplier and have their own transformer or high-voltage input, but I don't think they qualify as "domestic" or a home supply!

(eta) Also, if you own the transformer, then presumably you also own the input wires that are in direct contact with the electricity supplier's wires. Either that or there's a very bizarre ownership agreement where one of you owns one coil in the transformer, and the other owns the other.

I wasn't suggesting that my example was a residential service - it certainly was not.

Yes, in the example I cited, the power company owned the metering equipment, which metered at the 67kV level. The metering equipment was in the same fenced area as the transformer.

The transformer was all ours - we were responsible for all transformer maintenance.

At my current work site, our feed from the commercial power is 11kV and the metering is also at the 11kV level. Everything below 11kV is derived from our in-house transformers. I note that one section of one system actually operates directly from the 11kV.

With all this said, my current residential service is a three phase service - all of the large air conditioners have three phase compressors and I am certain the two condenser coil fan motors on the Hitachi two compressor system are three phase motors. I am not sure about the condenser fan motors on the other two units.

Last edited by UrbanLegends101; 18 June 2014 at 07:45 AM. Reason: changing a sentence or two.
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  #34  
Old 21 March 2018, 09:35 PM
vessworld vessworld is offline
 
 
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Default harvesting electricity from power lines

Harvesting electricity from power lines
WARNING! Trying this experiment involves incredibly high voltages! Do not be a stupid scientist. Do not conduct this experiment on anything but calm days. Fasten and know where the antenna wire is at all times. There can be no large slack in the wire at any time. You must be at least 30 feet from the power line! Make sure you are an electrician, electrical engineer, ham radio operator, electrical student or have years of electrical experience. You must understand what is being presented here in its totality. Also, this is illegal! Conduct your experiment and then remove everything from the site.
If you run a single wire along a high voltage power line, (= or> 340KV), you will harvest a fair amount of voltage at micro amp levels. WARNING: KEEP AT LEAST 30 FEET FROM THE HIGH VOLTAGE LINE!! Use small gauge solid bare wire hung from fishing line for insulation and support. The longer the wire, the higher the voltage. Use a fishing pole and weight to put up the wires in the closest branches along the right of way. Run your (antenna) parallel to the power line in the trees adjacent to one outer phase of the power line. The higher, the better. Run at least 200 feet of bare antenna wire. The wire must not touch any vegetation. WARNING, DO NOT TOUCH THE ANTENNA WIRE! YOU WILL GET SHOCKED! Commercial rubber gloves work well for this. The goal is to present a minimum load to the antenna wire and to step down the electrostatically induced voltage using transformers. Provide a single or several 5 foot ground rods at your termination point for the transformer high voltage secondary return. Ground the antenna right away! We then connect a high voltage transformer secondary winding, (a ham radio plate transformer rated at 10,000 volts to 220 volts / 115 volts. A 15 kilovolt neon sign transformer is better). voila! You have usable power from the AC input terminals of that transformer. You have created a capacativly-coupled step-down transformer. Your final voltages off the low side of the transformer may be from 150 VAC to .5 VAC. Place a 4 watt, incandescent 120 volt light across the 120 volt terminals of the transformer. Ground the Antenna wire while you work until the transformer is installed and you are ready for power. Removing the antenna clip from the ground rods allows the AC voltage to the light bulb. If the bulb pops, then you need still another step down transformer, say, 600 volts to 120 volts. Another transformer can provide more current. If the bulb does not light, (too much resistance), then remove the lamp and add a full wave rectifier and a 100 VDC, 10 microfarad capacitor. Measure the DC voltage. Can you run a small radio with this current? Charge a cell phone? Run a small ham radio? Run a small DC fan? Light up your campsite? The antenna by itself can also light up many florescent tubes at one time. Use the ground return for the other end of the florescent bulbs. Please be safe and work slowly!!
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