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Old 01 March 2014, 02:51 AM
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Icon605 Tax increases

Comment: Well folks, he warned us and we didn't pay attention.

In case you weren't paying attention, this is what happened on Jan. 1st this year

Happy New Year America --Here is what happened on January 1st 2014:

Top Income tax bracket went from 35% to 39.6%
Top Income payroll tax went from 37.4% to 52.2%
Capital Gains tax went from 15% to 28%
Dividends tax went from 15% to 39.6%
Estate tax went from 0% to 55%

The politicians are raping this country and destroying our nation.

No one is standing up for us, the citizens.
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  #2  
Old 01 March 2014, 03:14 AM
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Is 40% income tax outrageous? I'm pretty sure that's what I pay and I'm not in the top bracket.
ETA apparently I am in the top tax bracket as of 7 days ago if I read the table I just saw right. That's a pretty low cutoff. I think people making over 100k should definitely have a higher tax rate. Mine has crept up so that this year is the first year my "raise" (+1 year of experience on the grid) wasn't swallowed up by higher tax rates.

Last edited by Latiam; 01 March 2014 at 03:24 AM.
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  #3  
Old 01 March 2014, 03:23 AM
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It depends. But if that's your total tax, that's not the same thing as U.S. federal income tax.
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  #4  
Old 01 March 2014, 06:03 AM
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I typically get a little under half of my paycheck. I was talking specifically about income tax taken off my paycheck.
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  #5  
Old 01 March 2014, 08:31 AM
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Americans have other taxes taken out of their paychecks. "The" federal income tax isn't the only federal tax on wages, and most states and sometimes even their subdivisions also tax income.
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  #6  
Old 01 March 2014, 02:39 PM
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Income tax rates on the top bracket have been much higher in the past, though.
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  #7  
Old 01 March 2014, 03:20 PM
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Most people have federal income tax, social security tax, Medicare tax, and state income tax taken from their paychecks. Some also have county and/or city income taxes.
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  #8  
Old 01 March 2014, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avril View Post
Most people have federal income tax, social security tax, Medicare tax, and state income tax taken from their paychecks. Some also have county and/or city income taxes.
Yes, we have federal, EI(employment insurance), CPP (Canada Pension Plan), and provincial. Healthcare is included.
And then all the non tax deductions like benefits but they don't apply here.
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  #9  
Old 01 March 2014, 04:54 PM
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And the 42% number that is thrown around for the tax bracket is for any money earned above a certain dollar value. I am in that bracket, but I only pay 42% on about $5k.

My total tax rate is about %27 (not including property tax, sales tax and vehicle taxes.

I do still pay full EI and CPP, even though I don't benefit from either programme throughout my life.
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  #10  
Old 01 March 2014, 05:19 PM
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The terms y'all should be using are :

Marginal tax rate - the tax paid on the last dollar earned - this is the highest tax rate (bracket) applied to any individual. Typically this is calculated after deductions are applied.

Average tax rate - the ratio of all income tax paid on all income earned.

It's worth noting also that some of those payroll deductions are a percentage of income but only up to a certain point. This applies to Social Security ($117k) in the US, as well as CPP ($52.5k) and EI ($48.6k) in Canada. This is not a progressive tax system - the more you earn, the less you pay (as a percentage of total income).
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  #11  
Old 01 March 2014, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero_Mike View Post
It's worth noting also that some of those payroll deductions are a percentage of income but only up to a certain point... as well as CPP ($52.5k) and EI ($48.6k) in Canada.
It still burns me that despite paying into CPP and EI the entirety of my career, I can't benefit from either programme. But the fact that I pay higher rates than those who use the EI programme repeatedly is the source for a rant on another day (with recommended course of action, of course.)
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  #12  
Old 01 March 2014, 07:54 PM
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You would think that a rant (the OP) aimed at the 1% would be written in better English. The taxes of the vast majority of USians will be completely unaffected by those changes.
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  #13  
Old 01 March 2014, 08:00 PM
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You'd think so, but the idea is that if it comes across folksy and appeals to the masses then the people that aren't actually affected by it will believe that they somehow are and will raise a stink. If nothing else, the one percent are often very good at getting the 99% to do exactly what they want by making it appear that the working class is being taken advantage of.
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  #14  
Old 01 March 2014, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapax Legomena View Post
You'd think so, but the idea is that if it comes across folksy and appeals to the masses then the people that aren't actually affected by it will believe that they somehow are and will raise a stink. If nothing else, the one percent are often very good at getting the 99% to do exactly what they want by making it appear that the working class is being taken advantage of.
So true. In this case the 1% appears to have even gotten a 99%er to post the 1% rant.
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  #15  
Old 01 March 2014, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UEL View Post
It still burns me that despite paying into CPP and EI the entirety of my career, I can't benefit from either programme. But the fact that I pay higher rates than those who use the EI programme repeatedly is the source for a rant on another day (with recommended course of action, of course.)
Wow, that does suck.
It bugged me to be paying into EI on my part-time jobs when there was no way I would get it if I lost them, though I think there is some allowance for that as I usually got an overpayment when I did my taxes. The only time I have ever used EI was when I went on sick leave and didn't have sick days banked. Since I was suffering from depression and had worked enough I got sickness benefits. I think you can get them for 15 weeks or something like that. My doctor told me how to do it. I don't really remember much, I wasn't in very good shape. If I wasn't able to file from home on the computer I probably wouldn't have been able to get them at all.
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Old 23 March 2014, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapax Legomena View Post
You'd think so, but the idea is that if it comes across folksy and appeals to the masses then the people that aren't actually affected by it will believe that they somehow are and will raise a stink. If nothing else, the one percent are often very good at getting the 99% to do exactly what they want by making it appear that the working class is being taken advantage of.
Exactly, you have two groups that could be pissed even if they aren't affected:

1) Those who feel it's wrong, even if it doesn't hurt them.

2) Those who figure sooner or later they'll be in those very-high brackets so better fight it now.

The former is perfectly fair (after all, homophobic laws bother me even though as a heterosexual I'm not impacted directly by them at all, and in theory I may be able to benefit from some of them). While "defending people who are, given their immense wealth, among the most powerful people in the developed world" wouldn't be high on my 'defense' list, I can't say it's wrong.

The latter is, in most cases wishful thinking.
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  #17  
Old 24 March 2014, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UEL View Post
And the 42% number that is thrown around for the tax bracket is for any money earned above a certain dollar value. I am in that bracket, but I only pay 42% on about $5k.

My total tax rate is about %27 (not including property tax, sales tax and vehicle taxes.

I do still pay full EI and CPP, even though I don't benefit from either programme throughout my life.
If you don't benefit from EI, you shouldn't have to contribute. Same with CPP.
There are many factors which could disqualify you from either or both but being in the military is not one as far as I am aware and I was a CPP/EI rulings officer for a few years.
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  #18  
Old 24 March 2014, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snopes View Post
Capital Gains tax went from 15% to 28%
Dividends tax went from 15% to 39.6%
Estate tax went from 0% to 55%
Capital Gains tax and Dividends tax only went up for the top earners. Which is what was intended to keep billionaires from paying a lower percentage than their secretaries.

I'm not sure about the Estate tax but that sounds incorrect.

dewey
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  #19  
Old 24 March 2014, 02:48 PM
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IIRC, the threshold estate value for application of the estate tax was raised, to (partially) compensate for inflation since the threshold was originally set. So some estates that wouldn't have been subject to estate tax before the change were subject to the tax afterward. I don't know if the 55% is accurate.
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  #20  
Old 24 March 2014, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alarm View Post
If you don't benefit from EI, you shouldn't have to contribute. Same with CPP.
There are many factors which could disqualify you from either or both but being in the military is not one as far as I am aware and I was a CPP/EI rulings officer for a few years.
I can't get EI because when I leave, I retire, and with the pension, that makes me ineligible to collect EI from my military work. If I were to get a job at a factory (still collecting my pension) and then get laid off, the factory weeks would help me qualify.

As for CPP, when I hit 65, I will get CPP. It is just that members of the military and RCMP see a dollar for dollar reduction of their military/police pensions when they get their CPP. This is due to an arrangement made by the government when the well funded military and police pension plans helped bail out the CPP in the '90s.

So, unlike pensioners who earned their pensions through teaching, manufacture or being an MP, the dollar amount I retire at, is the amount for the remainder of my life. Perhaps it is a first world problem, but when my MP gets a healthy pension after 6 years, then gets CPP on top of that at 65, when my main pension gets reduced, I don't like it.

What I'd like to see is EI actually treated like an insurance programme. Businesses who have a regular routine of laying off employees pay higher premiums for EI than a company that has a consistent cycle of employment. People who are on a regular cycle of employment/unemployment pay a higher premium than someone who is continually at work. I'm not talking about "break the bank" dollar amounts, but enough so that there is some incentive to pursue longer term employment options.

I lived in the Maritimes in the '90s and saw the routine cycle of the mill laying off people once they got their weeks, then hiring them again once the EI wore out. I also have family in Maine, and their EI programme is similar to what I have wished for above. Companies that only offer seasonal employment, eg lumber, keep their employees on the books all winter and undertake different work during those months (snow removal services etc).

That way, people like me who are continually employed over years and post the lowest risk of unemployment don't pay the highest rate of employment insurance, and that the people and businesses who ride the cycle of employment/unemployment pay the lowest.

And for the record, I do know of many, many people who are legitimately helped by the EI programme, I am proposing the start of a differing perspective that I have not fully developed in my head.
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