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#81
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On an aside, it was reported on my early morning commuting news that some stores in Wisconsin are already seeing people setting up camp for Black Friday. However, Black Friday is not for another week.
Imagine that. Camping for eight days/nights and missing Thanksgiving in the house altogether for some sales. Wow. |
#82
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We don't know what, if anything, they're missing.
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#83
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I am more amazed that someone can, presumably, take that much time off work to commit to living outside a Best Buy for a week. No bathrooms. No heat (unless portable heaters used). It is one heck of a commitment.
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#84
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Yea.. I mean I guess plenty of people are unemployed, and those people probably need sales more than anybody I suppose, but it still seems an insane use of one's time. I suppose you could rotate.. Not sure how that would sit with other line waiters.
Maybe it's a disease, similar to hording or whatever, where it doesn't make sense to those looking in because it's a product of a sick mind.. Either way, given that most predictions I've read say this years sales will be.. Minimal.. Compared to other years it seems like a poor decision to camp out at all, much less a week ahead of time, for the chance of getting a good price on something. To the main topic.. It does appear like both sides (both here and elsewhere) don't encourage the government getting involved and feel the store should make the choice but those who are opposed to it are advocating for people to skip out. I guess it could feel like nagging, depending on whom is doing the talking/typing, but really it could be one of those things people just don't think about. The store is open, why not shop? When really you are helping to support something you may not agree with (Sort of like all those people who rally against Walmart but shop there anyway). Personally I wouldn't ever go to a black friday sale, I find the idea of being around that many people rushing around to be unpleasent enough of it's own without getting social issues involved. I'll stick to cyber monday, the savers are (presumably) not as good but I can hit more stores easier and I don't have to run the risk of dying, or at the very least of getting up ridiculously early in the morning (if not days in advance) and hanging out in the cold around angry, crazy people. |
#85
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Two years ago I shopped for groceries on Thanksgiving morning. I was leaving town to spend the long weekend caring for my mother, but first I needed to buy some cat food and stuff. I didn't do it the night before because the weather was crappy and traffic was bad I'd had a hard enough time getting home from work, plus I had to do laundry and pack.
If someone had told me that day that I shouldn't be shopping on Thanksgiving, or worse that I was "part of the problem," I probably would have told them to stuff it. ETA: I realize that's not the kind of shopping most people in this thread are talking about, but the distinction isn't always made very clearly, and I'm frankly not sure there is a bright line. My brother might have taken advantage of his day off work and caregiving to hit some sales and heard the same comments. |
#86
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Keep in mind you'd be doing 'black friday' style shopping though.. I mean I can't speak for you or your financial situation but I'd buy cat food in a 7/11 or emergency vets office or basically anywhere before I braved the typical black friday crowd.
Also, maybe it's just around here, but many if not most stores are typically open on thanksgiving, just that they close early (for people who forgot some random ingredient or decoration or whatever). I assume the main issue is them staying open during the actual 'holiday' part itself (while I guess everybody is different, I suspect for most it 'starts' in mid to late afternoon by which point most retail stores are typically closed). So unless the mandatory shopping (again at a typical big box store) has to be done during thanksgiving afternoon/evening it shouldn't really be a major impact, and if it was you'd be competing with people looking to save 50% on a blue ray player and willing to risk inadvertently killing somebody over it, or being killed. |
#87
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My Ex used to do this with her sister and mother. It was a big thing for them, they would usually buy silly hats to wear just for the occasion.
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#88
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Yeah, I get that, but see my ETA.
If my brother had decided to take advantage of a rare day off from both work and caregiving, and hit up some sales to grab some bargains, would he have been "part of the problem"? It's one thing to urge people to mindful, but tossing out judgmental phrases like that when we don't know people's individual situations seems unnecessary and unkind. ETA: And ironically, less than mindful. |
#89
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If I had to work on Thanksgiving, I could still make my own little celebratory dinner or whatever some other day. But I wouldn't be able to participate in the big family gathering that is, to me, the heart of Thanksgiving. |
#90
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ETA: * I hope that makes sense. What I mean to say is that they celebrate many of the secular traditions of Christmas and the sense of joy and giving more than the religious commemoration of the birth of Christ. |
#91
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For kids, Santa comes Christmas morning, you could I guess say "he's hitting our house early or late" but I can see why parents may not want to do that. The dinner/visiting part of it you could, of course, do at any time.
Once you are taking about adults I agree that the specific day celebrating Christmas isn't that big a deal.. Saving maybe for religious people who attend services (wouldn't know) but then religious people get more than enough special rights as it is. Quote:
It's not that I get the complaint, just that I don't see it as a big deal, but as noted we are all different. Personally, I'd prefer more people have time off than not because most people would prefer not to work than work.. However it's simply not something I feel that concerned about and, as noted by myself and a few others, I suspect that's just cause I'm so used to the idea. It's not like I have the attitude of "I have to work so so does everybody else!", just that I've made my peace with the idea long ago so it's just not something that raises my hackles.. I suspect if I worked in retail and found my days off were about to change for the worse I would be much more upset. Last edited by Mickey Blue; 22 November 2013 at 06:15 PM. |
#92
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I make mention of Japan because they have even more national holidays than the US, and you live in that country. Do you protest against those holidays as much as you protest against these? Or can you not sympathize with people in those jobs where, by whim, people have to work on a holiday that used to be - even in recent memory - pretty universal. I don't know if the celebration in Japan includes a cessation of commerce or manufacturing production, or even retail sales, but there are lots of those holidays, and my guess is that they are paid for full-time workers. But the point here is that people are saying that a holiday should be a holiday - a more universal day off for all but the most "essential" occupations - and that retail sales are *not* essential. Quote:
The issue of mandated holidays is for the "greater good", and if you believe that something like that exists, then you understand the need to make it universal. The one business which remains open, while all others voluntarily close, would be very profitable, (at least until it had competition), rather than be shunned. Thus the need for regulation. Quote:
Do you really, honestly think that such unrestricted capitalism is going to benefit the "greater good"? |
#93
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..the greater good..
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#94
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As has been pointed out before in this thread, the problem is coming up with a day on which as many people as possible can all gather together at once. Quote:
I have frequently been in your second category of people. I expect some gas stations and restaurants to be open, and others to be closed. I plan accordingly. Quote:
The line between genuinely needing a service on a holiday and only wanting to be able to do anything at any time, no matter the impact on others, is going to be essentially blurry. I have again not said otherwise. Quote:
Do you think it is ridiculous to state that people in the United States who lose their jobs sometimes wind up homeless? If so, have you read any news in the past few years? Do you think it is ridiculous to state that people who refuse to work on Thanksgiving, no matter how much they hate it, risk losing their jobs? Do you think it is ridiculous to point out that your statement in post #37 Quote:
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And I have no idea what you mean by "some support for your argument." If you want me to provide a clear cite that our civilization will come to an end if large numbers of people can't celebrate with their families, of course I can't do that; and I wasn't claiming that. If you want me to provide a clear cite that cohesiveness of families is useful to society and that preventing them from getting together may be damaging to this, I don't know where to start, and haven't time to do the research; but I wasn't claiming that, either, though I suspect that it might be true. If you want me to provide a clear cite that there are significant numbers of people who have to work on Thanksgiving at the sorts of businesses that until recently usually gave employees the day off, and who are significantly upset about this, I could give you hundreds or probably thousands of them. Why don't you save me the copy-and-paste and just put 'protest working on Thanksgiving' into Google, and read for a while. Quote:
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Exactly where the line is for reasonable expectations for either amount of work or amount of pay is of course an area in which people differ. While differing, they are entitled to make arguments about the subject. Quote:
The question is, should workplaces be able to force other people not to celebrate it; and how strong a reason should they need in order to do so; and what counts as a strong versus a weak reason. Quote:
Except possibly for the part about their desiring to do so meaning that other people don't get to spend their holiday doing what they want. Quote:
If your brother gets almost no possible time for shopping, then he's going to have to shop when he can, and shouldn't be blamed for it. I don't think that the entire society should have to keep all stores open so that he and those in similar situations can have the best possible selection available on Thanksgiving, however. |
#95
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One issue is that many of those retail workers aren't getting holiday pay and they're told they have to show up on Thanksgiving or they're fired. Other employers do give time and a half for people to work on Thanksgiving, and it's enough of an incentive to have people volunteer to work because they could use the extra money. For me, the only shopping I do on Thanksgiving itself is a quick run to the grocery store before it closes to get a forgotten ingredient.
I won't go shopping on Black Friday, as the only thing I do that day is visit family I couldn't see on Thanksgiving. I've worked in retail and I've seen how crazy that day is, so I prefer to stay home. My SIL on the other hand, has a tradition with her sisters and mom to go shopping on that day, so she's one of those who deals with the crowds. |
#96
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1. Okay people do know that the "OMG BLACK FRIDAY TURNS PEOPLE INTO MONSTERS! YOU'RE GONNA GET TRAMPLED TO DEATH IF YOU GO NEAR A STORE ON BLACK FRIDAY!" thing is a widely debunked myth right?
2. Yes people wanting to shop are Thanksgiving are greedy and excessive. Much better to waste fuel to travel so you can celebrate a holiday by stuffing food into other food and eating until you are in a coma. Much more sublime. 3. Thanksgiving sacred? Really? What exactly are we even celebrating? |
#97
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Sure the killings and severe injuries are fairly rare, but (and I don't know how common it has to be not to be a myth or how typical the places I've lived are with other places) the idea of tons and tons of people rushing around is pretty typical to most big box stores I've had the misfortune of being in or near on Black Friday (at the beginning of the day, sure if you roll in at 1PM it'll be fine).
Completely agreed about the second point, family togetherness is nice and all but most Thanksgiving traditions are built around excess (particularly with regard to food). They don't have to be of course, but then neither does shopping. Here's a list of 15 notable deaths or injuries, and I'm sure there are countless examples of assault/battery (pushing through to get merch) and general craziness given the news stories every year. |
#98
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A quick google for Black Friday injuries and deaths turns up a surprising number of incidents. How has that been debunked?
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#99
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What do people think that injures and accidents and incidents don't happen at all the Walmarts and Best Buys the other 363 days of the year? |
#100
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Are people often trampled in stores in the US then? How bizarre.
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