Is Madeleine McCann Disappearance a Hoax?

[Artemis]

Article here.

Story seems straightfoward except for the fact that the girl's parents left her and her siblings alone while they went out to dinner.

My warning bells are kind of going off. Does seem a little convenient that a kidnapper just happened by while her parents were out. And in cases like this, it's usually a relative/family member who's committed the crime...

[Christie]

It sounds like they were no further away from the children than I would be if I left my children in bed on the second floor of our home and went down to sit at the bottom of our garden. Closer actually.

I've been talking about this with my friends lately and I hear mixed views about this. Several of my friends have said they've done the very same thing with their children, but being the kind of person I am (worry wart) I don't reckon I would leave kids that small out of my sight for a minute.

[Artemis]

Yeah...I feel weird leaving a dog alone unattended for too long. Maybe I'm just neurotic, but my mind would be building up horrible fantasies of what could happen.

[Aud 1]

Why does it matter how the children were conceived. So not necessary.

My heart goes out to them though. How terrible!

I would have done the same thing they did. Sounds like they could have left the kids for as little as 10 minutes and the kid would have been gone. Seems like the kidnapper was watching and waiting for the opportunity to strike.

Sometimes you do you best and short of keeping watch over your kids with a loaded shotgun, bad things will happen.

[Buckle Up]

Originally Posted by Artemis

My warning bells are kind of going off. Does seem a little convenient that a kidnapper just happened by while her parents were out.

Here's what made my bells go off:

"It was my young brother Gerry distraught on the phone, breaking his heart. He said: 'Madeleine's been abducted, she's been abducted'.

I know it's another country, so that might account for it, but it doesn't sound like how people really talk in a situation like that. "She's been abducted" sounds too formal. I dunno, maybe I've seen too many movies...I'd be screaming, "she's gone," or "who took her" or something less - well - grammatically correct.

[LyndaD]

I think there's a difference between leaving your sleeping children inside your home while you are out in the garden, and leaving them in a hotel room while you are in a restaurant.

[Ana Ng]

Believe me, I am in no way, shape, or form a model parent. I smoke, I swear, I let my son watch Dane Cook with me and eat cookies when he wakes up in the middle of the night. But I thought the same thing. In a CYA-ish (I'm supposing) management there said there were babysitting services that weren't being used.

Granted, it may be closer in distance than in your house, and I agree with you, Christie- I've run to the store below my house for toilet paper or milk and left the kids upstairs. The fact remains in this case that the children were unattended long enough for someone to sneak in, grab the baby, and get far enough away for her to be just gone.

When Ciaran was in the hospital, tagged (as all kids are to prevent abduction) and monitors, he was not without me or my husband or parents, ever. Over two weeks. I love going out to dinner, but I'd never put my kids in danger to do so. I just can't see how anyone could enjoy dinner knowing the kids were alone.

I wonder if they had been doing that during their whole holiday and someone was aware of that.

Originally Posted by LyndaD

I think there's a difference between leaving your sleeping children inside your home while you are out in the garden, and leaving them in a hotel room while you are in a restaurant.

If the hotel room was locked, and you checked up on them periodically.... I'm not sure what more you could have done. Had they used the babysitting service and the sitter had fallen asleep, it still would have happened.

This is a horrible thing and I could see everyone's POV had they left the room open or left them for hours, but they were checking up on them and they were only across the pool from the room.

[Sara@home]

I can remember a resort we stayed at in Mexico. It was small, friendly, half the rooms -- and the restaurant -- faced a common courtyard. I would have had no qualms about leaving a sleeping child in one of those rooms while I sat in the restaurant or in the courtyard. In fact, I'm sure the people who were there with us did that.

I was thinking about this last night. I think a lot of tourists feel 'safer' on holiday than they do at home. I saw numerous women walking down the street with their purses held loosely by their side. It's very easy for someone to run by and snatch a purse like that. I've had a few friends have their purses snatched and one was actually beat up.

[llewtrah]

I've read of visitors (British possibly, can't recall as it was a newspaper report several years back) to the USA facing legal action for child neglect over leaving a baby sleeping unattended in a hotel room while they went down to reception/restaurant. This tells me there is a cultural difference in parenting. Over here, it is acceptable to leave a child asleep in a room for a short while (e.g. to go to the reception desk) or to check in on the sleeping child at frequent intervals while having a meal in the restaurant or outdoors. I'm sure my parents did this on occasion so they could eat a later dinner with other adults while we slept.

An abductor who noticed this could plan to take a child inbetween parental check-ins to the kids' room. They'd just have to watch for when the parents checked and then grab the child immediately afterwards.

You have to understand that for many decades British babies and small children have been left sleeping in prams in their back gardens while the mother did housework and the baby got fresh air (note: with the canopy up - not in the full glare of sunshine). Some of the early parenting books recommended this. So we have a culture of keeping a watchful eye from afar or, if the child isn't always in view, of checking on it frequently. Heck, prams were often left outside shops while mother got groceries.

Until recent years this has never been considered neglectful.

Originally Posted by Buckleupp

I know it's another country, so that might account for it, but it doesn't sound like how people really talk in a situation like that. "She's been abducted" sounds too formal. I dunno, maybe I've seen too many movies...I'd be screaming, "she's gone," or "who took her" or something less - well - grammatically correct.

Adrenalin can do incredible things to a person. It's surprising how clear-thinking and calm a person can appear in the aftermath of a horrific event. Some people lose their faculties, but others can and do deal with the situation calmly and efficiently as if on auto-pilot. Big news is often too big to sink in straight away.

Originally Posted by Doug4.7

If the hotel room was locked, and you checked up on them periodically.... I'm not sure what more you could have done. Had they used the babysitting service and the sitter had fallen asleep, it still would have happened.

This is a horrible thing and I could see everyone's POV had they left the room open or left them for hours, but they were checking up on them and they were only across the pool from the room.

They apparently left the patio doors unlocked 'in case of fire'. I think (could be wrong because I only skimmed the article) that the police think that's how she was taken.

ETA: that's a rather old article, more here with various links.

FOAF's parents have a villa there- you can apparently see the apartment easily from the restaurant- but that's not very helpful if you have left the back door open (that's the way they were going in to check on the children).

I have to say, if this was a single mother who had gone out and left her children alone she would be crucified, and there would probably be calls to take her remaining children into care.
There is also talk of police incompetance but I don't have time to find links to that. I do know that they apparently didn't alert the ports/borders (the border with Spain is 2 hours away) until 16 hours after she was reported missing, because they thought she'd wandered off.

Originally Posted by JessBoo

They apparently left the patio doors unlocked 'in case of fire'. i think (could be wrong because I only skimmed the article) that the police think that's how she was taken.

That changes things quite a bit.

Originally Posted by Neffti

Adrenalin can do incredible things to a person. It's surprising how clear-thinking and calm a person can appear in the aftermath of a horrific event. Some people lose their faculties, but others can and do deal with the situation calmly and efficiently as if on auto-pilot. Big news is often too big to sink in straight away.

Since, as the article says, the guy is a consulting cardiologist, he should be used to high pressure situations. I understand that having your child kidnapped is more stressful than probably anything else a person can ever experience, but his statements do not sound out of line to me. I know several MDs who would not be caught dead using any type of improper grammar, no matter what the situation.

[Gayle]

Were I a nasty perv who wanted to snatch a child, I'd find me a family friendly hotel, too. If they were checking every half hour, it would be easy to time them and know how much head start you could get.

[Ana Ng]

Originally Posted by llewtrah

You have to understand that for many decades British babies and small children have been left sleeping in prams in their back gardens while the mother did housework and the baby got fresh air (note: with the canopy up - not in the full glare of sunshine). Some of the early parenting books recommended this. So we have a culture of keeping a watchful eye from afar or, if the child isn't always in view, of checking on it frequently. Heck, prams were often left outside shops while mother got groceries.

Until recent years this has never been considered neglectful.

My mother used to recommend or do the same thing- it may not be cultural, but rather a shift over the years. I remember a case about a decade ago of a woman from Europe (not Britain or Ireland) being arrested for parking her pram outside of Dallas BBQ while she ate inside. It was pretty big news here.

In any event, it still seems like a violation of common sense whatever country you're from. I've heard people say never leave your baby where you wouldn't leave a million dollars. Seems a good barometer. No matter what, it seems incredibly stupid to leave your child anywhere unattended and unlocked. If they were far away enough not to notice a fire, they were too damn far away.