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  #41  
Old 15 January 2013, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitz1980 View Post
... and payoff Yoda's "there is another" line and that killed two birds with one stone.
Am I the only one that felt this was not paid off adequately? Yes, Leia was brave and daring, but if she was also so strong with the Force, why did she not develop that? She already seemed to be kept back from missions like the Death Star attack, but then she supposedly has this awesome capacity for using the force, but she needn't worry her pretty little sticky-bun head about that! After all, she really is just supposed to be a figurehead and the prize the real heroes vie for.

For that matter, I have not seen episodes 1-3, so can someone tell me if there were any women Jedi?

I often find that claims of sexism are strained, but some of them slap you upside the head, and this does it for me.
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  #42  
Old 15 January 2013, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Thera View Post
Thanks, I feel vindicated now.
Everyone knows there was a lot of writing going on. None of that has anything to do with the still you offered as evidence. In the excerpts and links provided, it doesn't say anything about Luke and Leia possibly hooking up. Nor does the still provided seem to show that there was any such plan.
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  #43  
Old 15 January 2013, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack View Post
For that matter, I have not seen episodes 1-3, so can someone tell me if there were any women Jedi?
There are, but none on the Jedi Council (at least none obvious).
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  #44  
Old 15 January 2013, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
There are, but none on the Jedi Council (at least none obvious).
There are four women on the High Council in Episode 1, including a female of Yoda's species, three women on the High Council in Episode 2, and two women on the High Council in Episode 3. One of those female Councilmembers is present across all three episodes.
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  #45  
Old 15 January 2013, 09:57 PM
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Are they seen taking leadership roles or are they simply there to fill a quota?
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  #46  
Old 15 January 2013, 10:00 PM
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It's been a while since I've seen the movies, but some of them at least got speaking lines.
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  #47  
Old 15 January 2013, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Aimee Evilpixie View Post
It's been a while since I've seen the movies, but some of them at least got speaking lines.
Were any of them using light sabers?
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  #48  
Old 15 January 2013, 10:12 PM
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In some of the large fight scenes, I think. It's been a long time since I saw them, though. They all HAVE lightsabers, featured in publicity photos.
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  #49  
Old 15 January 2013, 10:38 PM
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At least 6 named Jedi females wield light sabers during the arena battle near the end of Attack of the Clones; Stass Allie, Butlar Swan, Aayla Secura, Adi Gallia, Luminara Unduli, and Shaak Ti. At least a couple re-appeared during the Jedi Purge / Order 66 scenes in Revenge of the Sith.

I don't think any of them spoke however.
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  #50  
Old 16 January 2013, 02:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoolie View Post
Simpler? I thought his beef was with the dialog anyway.
Simpler for Guinness since he wouldn't need to be in as many scenes if his character would be living.

Even in the books Luke didn't get any formal training until he met with Yoda. Until then he was doing pretty basic stuff.
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  #51  
Old 16 January 2013, 02:41 AM
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And honestly this might explain the biggest narrative blunder in the Star Wars trilogy.

Let's look at the main narrative arc of Empire Strikes Back.

After the Battle of Hoth Luke heads for Dagobah to be trained by Yoda and Han and Leia head to Cloud City to lay low from the Empire.

Luke lands on Dagobah, mets Yoda, begins training.

Han and Leia reach Cloud City, meet Lando, get double crossed.

Luke senses his friends are in danger and leaves Dagobah early to go help his friends, leading to his confrontation with Vader.

Now here's the thing... the whole "Go to Cloud City, Met Lando, Get Double Crossed Thing" doesn't span that much time and it's happening around the events of Luke's training.

Long story short... if we accept the narrative events of this film Luke is basically taught Godlike powers in at most a long weekend. Learning the ability to bend the rules of physics apparently takes less time in the Star Wars universe then getting a merit badge.

This isn't even factoring in the fact that when Luke returns to Dagobah in Return of the Jedi Yoda tells him there is nothing more to teach him.

Now had Obi-Wan survived the events of a New Hope this could of been easily explained by just having Obi-wan teach Luke the basics during the months the Rebels are hiding out on Hoth. I mean it's a frozen ice planet what else you gonna do? Then the Dagobah scenes could have been the final phase of the training, the final test, or something along those lines with either Obi-Wan and Yoda's characters combined or Yoda being there to simply administer the last phase/final test part of the training, and all the characters would have kept their same basic places in the narrative. There's still plenty of places in the narrative where Obi-wan could die a hero's death and/or confront Vader.
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  #52  
Old 16 January 2013, 05:11 AM
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I think the handwave is that it took a while for Han and Co. to get to Cloud City because the hyperdrive was busted, so Luke was training for more like two months or something.
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  #53  
Old 16 January 2013, 05:21 AM
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Or, Luke goes to the Cloud City with very little training - but then returns to Dagobah and trains for a long time before rescuing Han. They don't state how long Han was frozen in carbonite before being rescued, it might have been years.
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  #54  
Old 16 January 2013, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
Everyone knows there was a lot of writing going on. None of that has anything to do with the still you offered as evidence. In the excerpts and links provided, it doesn't say anything about Luke and Leia possibly hooking up. Nor does the still provided seem to show that there was any such plan.
I don't know about you, but I don't lean up on my male coworkers, put my hand on their chests, and tilt my head upwards towards them so close our noses nearly touch while having a conversation. The pic, still or not, is undeniable evidence that a love triangle was in the making.

Also, there is a whole deleted scene where Luke makes the moves on Leia and they nearly kiss, before C3PO interrupts them. It's in the Blu Ray release and also provides undeniable evidence for a love triangle, because Luke openly states his feelings for her.

http://www.blogcdn.com/blog.moviefon...9/lukeleia.jpg

Scene:

http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/index...._articleid=404

Somewhere in between ESB and ROTJ, Lucas simply changed his mind. That's all I'm arguing; that he didn't have the whole trilogy in his head the entire time.
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  #55  
Old 16 January 2013, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Or, Luke goes to the Cloud City with very little training - but then returns to Dagobah and trains for a long time before rescuing Han. They don't state how long Han was frozen in carbonite before being rescued, it might have been years.
I know this isn't canonical but the books say 6 months between movie 5 and 6. And in that time he never went back. Luke says so in 6 - he returned to complete his training.

Shadows of the empire gives us the impression that Luke practiced and traine alone on Tattoine in Bens house. Apparently he had books.

Luke's training in movie 5 was apparently rushed and obviously incomplete.
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  #56  
Old 16 January 2013, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diddy View Post
I know this isn't canonical but the books say 6 months between movie 5 and 6. And in that time he never went back. Luke says so in 6 - he returned to complete his training.

Shadows of the empire gives us the impression that Luke practiced and traine alone on Tattoine in Bens house. Apparently he had books.

Luke's training in movie 5 was apparently rushed and obviously incomplete.
Plus the final part of training is constructing your own saber - which he does with Ben's old tools in his house in the books, but it seems to be a cave here.
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  #57  
Old 16 January 2013, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thera View Post
The pic, still or not, is undeniable evidence that a love triangle was in the making.
No, not at all. There isn't even any indication it was ever scripted anywhere at all or for what purpose it was taken in the first place. It isn't undeniable evidence of anything but the overactive imagination of fans.
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  #58  
Old 17 January 2013, 04:12 PM
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I posted link to the script of the deleted scene. Not the one in the corridor, which I posted first, but the second one, in the med bay. So, yes it was scripted, filmed, and cut from the movie, then later added back into the Blu Ray edition.
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  #59  
Old 17 January 2013, 10:08 PM
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Yes, I saw the links. They aren't really impressive as evidence for plans for a "triangle" or any other kind of real love story beyond Luke making a move or the two of them kissing. But they're certainly a lot more interesting than a still that shows nothing but a couple of young actors looking into each other's eyes. I still don't see how that's "undeniable evidence" of a "triangle". (How do you get the triangle in the first place? If the writing was changing so much as he went along, why don't you think her little thing with Han - also not a very deep love story - was added later, after her kiss or grope or whatever it was with Luke was killed.)
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  #60  
Old 08 March 2013, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad from Georgia View Post
Back in the thirties in the U.S. money was "dough." Money musicians earned in a gig got baked into "bread." And from there the word caught on to some extent. Just recently I heard a student ask another one "Hey, you got any dough?" I was mildly surprised to hear that one still being used.
That's a reverse-engineered explanation. The truth is simpler and more odd. It's Cockney rhyming slang.

The way it works is, you replace a word with another, by thinking of a phrase that contains a word that rhymes with the one you want to replace, then use the other word in the phrase, the one that doesn't rhyme. For example, in Ocean's Eleven, Don Cheadle, playing a Cockney, says "we're in a lot of Barney." When everyone goes "huh?" he says "Barney Rubble. Trouble. We're in a lot of trouble."

So, bread. Money rhymes with honey, which brings to mind "bread and honey," bang, money = bread.

I'm sure the American "dough" had a similarly prosaic origin having nothing whatsoever to do with bread, as it was in use for decades before the Britishism crossed the pond.
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