UK crime stats

[snopes]

Comment: Is the below true ?

"How has that UK gun ban been working?"

"In the four years from 1997 to 2001, the rate of violent crime more than
doubled. Your chances of being mugged in London are now six times greater
than in New York. England's rates of assault, robbery, and burglary are
far higher than America's. 53 percent of English burglaries occur while
occupants are at home, compared with 13 percent in the U.S., where
burglars admit to fearing armed homeowners more than the police."

[Chloe]

So it not because of massive changes to the way violent crime was counted in the UK in 1998, then?

[Embra]

Found this link interesting (and more up-to-date):

http://www.politics.co.uk/reference/gun-crime

[GaryM]

Originally Posted by snopes

England's rates of assault, robbery, and burglary are
far higher than America's.

If someone can find the official American figures they can compare them with these figures for England and Wales for 2010/2011:

Assaults - 319 per 10,000 adults (131 with minor injury and 188 without injury)
Robberies - 55 per 10,000 adults
Burglaries - 317 per 10,000 households (127 with loss and 190 without loss)

[Chloe]

Originally Posted by Embra

Found this link interesting (and more up-to-date):

http://www.politics.co.uk/reference/gun-crime

It drives me crazy that people say "Gun crimes actually went up after guns were restricted!" as if that proves something. Well, duh!

[Avril]

Official figures for the United States in 2011, from the FBI. The rates on the table are given as per 100,000 people.

[erwins]

Originally Posted by Avril

Official figures for the United States in 2011, from the FBI. The rates on the table are given as per 100,000 people.

Comparing those to the rates GaryM posted, (and converting to the same units) it looks like the US rates are indeed lower--even much lower--than the England and Wales rates. We can't be sure like is being compared with like, though, without knowing the definitions of the categories. E.g., the England and Wales figures include "assaults" whereas the FBI figures are for "aggravated assaults". But one would think that burglary and robbery would be defined pretty similarly, and there are significant differences there too. Interesting. (But not evidence, by itself, of guns' mere legality preventing crime).

[GaryM]

Originally Posted by Avril

Official figures for the United States in 2011, from the FBI. The rates on the table are given as per 100,000 people.

Thanks. If I'm reading those figures right, then it does indeed look like the USA has a far lower rate of those crimes than England and Wales. I've not gone into detail though so I'm not sure exactly how comparable the numbers are.

[Embra]

The US stats say they are per 100,000 inhabitants whereas those for the UK are (according to GaryM's post) per 10,000 adults.

[Avril]

I also find it interesting that the rates have fallen so significantly in the past 10 years. I wonder why.

[Andrew of Ware]

This programme from BBC Radio 4's series More or Less analyses US gun statistics and sees if they stand up to scrutiny. It does not say UK only and I have not had a chance to listen myself (it is nearly midnight), but if you can listen then it should be very interesting.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01pcwqx

[Andrew of Ware]

Here are some pages from the UK National Statistics website of the British Government.

Firstly this shows that serious crime (homicide, etc) has fallen since 1981, even though recorded crime has increased. Scroll down for the graph.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/hub/cri...nds/index.html

Next, this page shows that homicide (including murder, manslaughter and other deaths through crime such as dangerous driving) has fallen since 2000, but it is has risen since 1960. The year 2000 is quite significant because Britain's really tough gun laws came in soon after the 1997 Dunblane school massacre.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/hub/cri...ime/index.html

ETA: The links take you to the index page. To see the charts you need to go to the Overview tab and then select the statistics you want.

ETA2: This Guardian page has an interesting table. The Guardian is one of the UK's more reliable papers.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...hip-world-list

From the table:

In England and Wales 6.6% of all homicides are by the use of a firearm, in the USA it is 60%.

In England Wales there 0.07 homicides by firearm per 100,000 people - in the USA is 2.97. ()

In England and Wales there are 6.2 firearms per 100 people, in the USA it is 88.8.

If I lived in the USA I would find these statistics rather worrying.

[erwins]

Originally Posted by Embra

The US stats say they are per 100,000 inhabitants whereas those for the UK are (according to GaryM's post) per 10,000 adults.

Ah, so that might explain a whole lot right there.

[Chloe]

The changes in crime reporting rules in 1998 and again in 2002 are somewhat explained here: http://www.leics.gov.uk/melt_5.2_changes.pdf Among other things, common assault was reclassified as violent crime, thus making the numbers look like a massive (118%) surge in violent crime.

[jjk308]

Originally Posted by Andrew of Ware

In England Wales there 0.07 homicides by firearm per 100,000 people - in the USA is 2.97. ()

In England and Wales there are 6.2 firearms per 100 people, in the USA it is 88.8.

If I lived in the USA I would find these statistics rather worrying.

In the immortal words of Archey Bunker: "Would youz rather they was thrown outta winders?" The only thing that counts for murder, and for suicide too, is the overall rate. Many nations supposedly without private ownership of firearms have sky high murder rates. And many with exactly the same gun control laws have, in different regions, very different murder rates.

I note that you use England/Wales figures. Look up those for Scotland with the same gun laws but a different legal system.

[Embra]

Originally Posted by jjk308

I note that you use England/Wales figures. Look up those for Scotland with the same gun laws but a different legal system.

Well, the OP does also refer to "England" so I don't see the problem with sticking with that in subsequent discussion.

But if you want Scottish crime statistics, you can find them I'm sure. Maybe here:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/St.../Crime-Justice

[BringTheNoise]

Waffles (10 char)

[BringTheNoise]

Originally Posted by jjk308

In the immortal words of Archey Bunker: "Would youz rather they was thrown outta winders?"

Probably. I think I've got a better chance of surviving (up to a certain height at least). Same reason I'd rather be stabbed than shot.

[gopher]

I find all these debates a bit redundant. When you get down to it a signifigant number of Americans have decided their deaths by firearms are a price worth paying to be able to easily and quickly kill a fellow human being, the only reason for a civilian to own a handgun or assault rifle.

If you want a challenge when hunting, use a knife.

[Chloe]

Originally Posted by jjk308

In the immortal words of Archey Bunker: "Would youz rather they was thrown outta winders?" The only thing that counts for murder, and for suicide too, is the overall rate. Many nations supposedly without private ownership of firearms have sky high murder rates. And many with exactly the same gun control laws have, in different regions, very different murder .

The murder rate for the UK is about a quarter of that of the US, so people in the UK aren't throwing an equal number out of windows.

Archie Bunker, btw, wasn't meant to be a source of political wisdom.