Newtown-related rumors

[snopes]

The number of people who die annually in the U.S. from starvation is measured in the hundreds, not millions.

[geminilee]

Originally Posted by Lainie

And how is requiring someone to own a gun any less a violation of their rights than restricting their ownership of gun?

Well,you see, the Constitution gives everyone the right to bear arms, not the right to refrain from bearing arms. /sarcasm.

[A Turtle Named Mack]

Originally Posted by lord_feldon

As of December 9th, there had been 487 murders in Chicago this year. I don't think it's very likely that 92% of the victims were school-age children.

You may be right, but I would not rule it out entirely. So much of the gang shootings seem to involve youngsters.

Originally Posted by snopes

Comment: In 1982, Kennesaw, Georiga passed a law that required heads of households to own a gun. From 1982 - 2012 there have been only 4 murders. 3 of those murders happened in a gun free school zone where guns were not allowed.

Originally Posted by Lainie

How many murders were there in Kennesaw, GA from 1962-1982?

I don't know, nor whether the claims are accurate, but an absolute number comparison would not be very useful anyway, as Kennesaw had been a very sleepy little railroad stop best known for The Great Train Chase of the Civil War until the 80s, since when suburban growth has made its numbers burgeon. The city has also annexed surrounding developing land, including major areas with a mall and other major shopping facilities, plus the development along two busy interstates. No fair comparison can be made.

Originally Posted by Lainie

And how is requiring someone to own a gun any less a violation of their rights than restricting their ownership of gun?

Well, as geminilee points out, the 2d amendment protects the rights of people to own and bear arms, rather than limiting what they can possess (though the US S Ct says that the 2d amendment does allow limits). I am not sure if it would be unconstitutional for the federal government to require possession of any particular type of thing, but the police power of the local governments is very broad, and essentially can require most anything that is not forbidden by some state or federal constitutional protection.

Originally Posted by Simply Madeline

Well, Chicago used to have the strongest gun laws in the nation, but the SC struck down Chicago's gun ban in 2010. 446 is about the number of gun deaths this year (up considerably from prior years, but I'm sure that has nothing to do with the gun ban being overturned). About 60ish were school-aged children.

I checked wiki on this, and it showed that the S. Ct ruling only reached the absolute prohibition on any and all ownership of handguns - tight registration and licensing requirements are still allowed and imposed. I don't have the stats but I am fairly confident that the vast majority of gun crimes in Chicago are committed by people who are not complying with even those substantial remaining gun laws (to say nothing of the ones like "don't shoot others except in self-defense"), so the absolute prohibition of handgun ownership would be no more relevant than it was in DC before that prohibition was overturned.

Originally Posted by Simply Madeline

ETA: Also, Illinois' gun ban was struck down about a week ago. I'm sure that won't increase the number of people killed by guns either.

I agree, but then, I suspect you were being sarcastic, as a way of asserting a point without placing oneself in a position of defending it.

Originally Posted by snopes

Comment: In 2012, this many kids died from ...

Starvation 15,000,000
Car Accident 830,000
Drowning 175,000
Home Accident 2,800
Cancer 2,300
Abuse/Neglect 1,500
Gun Accident 500
School Shootings 23
Want to save chilren? Feed them

This is going around the internet because of the school shooting in
Newtown Conn and I don't believe these numbers are accurate at all..Please
post accurracy or not.

Originally Posted by snopes

The number of people who die annually in the U.S. from starvation is measured in the hundreds, not millions.

Well, the stats are not limited to the USA. Of course, 'death by starvation' per se is generally quite rare, since before one actually succumbs to starvation, one's weakened system usually falls victim to other conditions. This makes rating a claim like this about starvation deaths hard to rate.

[Lainie]

Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack

I don't know, nor whether the claims are accurate, but an absolute number comparison would not be very useful anyway, as Kennesaw had been a very sleepy little railroad stop best known for The Great Train Chase of the Civil War until the 80s, since when suburban growth has made its numbers burgeon. The city has also annexed surrounding developing land, including major areas with a mall and other major shopping facilities, plus the development along two busy interstates. No fair comparison can be made.

Which doesn't validate what I'm sure you realize was my point: that the statistics cited do not prove that requiring gun ownership did anything to reduce crime.

[ganzfeld]

Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack

[...] but the police power of the local governments is very broad, and essentially can require most anything that is not forbidden by some state or federal constitutional protection.

I'm curious as to where you got the idea that this is true.

[snopes]

Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack

Well, the stats are not limited to the USA.

The numbers from "home accident" on down are in fact limited to the U.S., which makes the previous entries misleadingly gross exaggerations.

[A Turtle Named Mack]

Originally Posted by ganzfeld

I'm curious as to where you got the idea that this is true.

From broad reading and legal education. Police power is not the powers of the police; it is much broader:

POLICE POWER is the authority of government to regulate "health, safety, welfare, and morals." In U.S. constitutional law, it is the plenary power of government to regulate any matter affecting its citizens so long as it is not barred by the Constitution.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/police_power.aspx

Here are some other articles on the 'police power' of the state/local governments.
http://floridaldrs.com/2011/01/02/fl...police-powers/
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/c...ment14/22.html
http://www.davekopel.org/CJ/LawRev/E...olicePower.htm

[ganzfeld]

Even the phrase "anything not barred by the Constitution" seems to go against the ninth amendment.

[erwins]

The Supreme Court has pretty much read anything useful out of the 9th Amendment. And the 14th changed the relationship of the states and the federal government. The 9th is pretty much vestigial at this point. (This is not just my opinion--you'll get the same thing from any current Con Law text. There would have to be a very big change in Supreme Court jurisprudence for the 9th to have any meaning at this point.)

Originally Posted by snopes

Comment: In 1982, Kennesaw, Georiga passed a law that required heads of
households to own a gun. From 1982 - 2012 there have been only 4 murders.
3 of those murders happened in a gun free school zone where guns were not
allowed.

I wonder how many of the people who are passing this around also got behind the argument against Obamacare that the government can't require you to buy a product (in that case, health insurance). Would they get behind a federal law that required everyone to have a gun? (Or would their heads just explode from the cognitive dissonance?)

[Andrew_P.]

Originally Posted by snopes

In 2012, this many kids died from ...

Starvation 15,000,000
Car Accident 830,000
Drowning 175,000
Home Accident 2,800
Cancer 2,300
Abuse/Neglect 1,500
Gun Accident 500
School Shootings 23
Want to save children? Feed them.

Those must be aggregate numbers worldwide, or some weird combination of United States and worldwide deaths. A clue is the number of car accident deaths: The total number of car accident deaths in the United States involving persons of all ages has been about 40,000 to 50,000 per year for many decades.

[Andrew_P.]

Originally Posted by erwins

Would they get behind a federal law that required everyone to have a gun? (Or would their heads just explode from the cognitive dissonance?)

I wouldn't get behind any such law, although I fully support ordinances such as the one in Kennesaw, Georgia. The federal government has no business or constitutional authority to direct citizens to do, or not do, anything; that authority is reserved to the states or the people, according to the 10th Amendment. In Kennesaw they provided an escape for those unable to own a gun for legal, physical, conscience and other reasons; not all the residents have a gun at home, but enough of them do to make miscreants think twice before committing crimes there. (Those who commit burglaries and robberies in Kennesaw must be terminally stupid, and removing them from the gene pool is the best possible outcome.) I also don't favor people who are mentally unfit to own or handle a firearm to have them around the house.